Cole: Single Attack Revamp Focus

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  • Cole: Single Attack Revamp Focus

    Originally posted by Quan Tran View Post
    After my double check on the spreadsheet, I have those new additions:

    Advisor Cullen should have drain immunity like its one star KCC extending to all allies. Being part of the inquisition and a 3*, he's resist/immunity is so lousy compared to the 2* Josie who is currently having dual stun/slow immunity. So as suggested previously and now. He needs:
    • Drain resist for squad (not just ferelden or inquisition)
    • 10% chance of 2-3 atk

    Cole needs a bump in power, his power isn't great compared to the HP of LCs and those inquisitions that have HP boost. I seldom use him these days. He probably needs:
    • Boost of power to 8k (attack 3-10 times)
    • Add random curse of power and HP so has can have a full set of: Stun, Slow, Drain, Curse!
    • Do not make him flank, we have other toons for that purpose, He's great the way he is now because he can neutralise LC and front row forcing opponent to use resist aura!


    Gotu and Justice is the best spirit dual, Justice is getting a 35% power aura and stun immunity while Gotu is not getting something similar. I think Gotu as a 2*/defender should at least have:
    • 35% HP aura to spirit (as compared to Justice's 35% power)
    • slow immunity to spirit (as compared to Justice's stun immunity)
    I would like to give some +1's to the above and add...

    Cole needs to match his current card reading of up to 10 hits (he currently does not function as stated).
    • PLEASE DO NOT Nerf Cole by reducing his # of attacks, as sometimes suggested, but do fix the bug that is not allowing him to full hit 10 times.
      Cole is great because of the nature that he has the possibility of hitting 1-3 times or going crazy.
    • Simple give Cole a 10% chance to hit 10 times (easy fix = 10% each number of hits from 1 -10).
    • Do not make him flank, we have other toons for that purpose, currently he can neutralize LC and front row forcing opponent to use resist aura!
    i

  • #2
    -Cole: she´s is alrready a great toon, and one of the most scary toons in the D-slot (and it´s something really useful), this HP buff is good for her, and once fixed the chance to hit BR with his multi hits Cole would be perfect. I think she doesn´t needs more buffs.

    IGN: lOGl Sarcodino
    Ally code: 478-549-376

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by |WWJD| Riful of the West View Post
      I would like to give some +1's to the above and add...

      Cole needs to match his current card reading of up to 10 hits (he currently does not function as stated).
      • PLEASE DO NOT Nerf Cole by reducing his # of attacks, as sometimes suggested, but do fix the bug that is not allowing him to full hit 10 times.
        Cole is great because of the nature that he has the possibility of hitting 1-3 times or going crazy.
      • Simple give Cole a 10% chance to hit 10 times (easy fix = 10% each number of hits from 1 -10).
      • Do not make him flank, we have other toons for that purpose, currently he can neutralize LC and front row forcing opponent to use resist aura!
      The problem with toons that have variable attacks is that there is a huge variance; one battle Cole can hit just once and the next it could be ten and destroy the entire enemy squad in one go. By increasing his stats and lowering the maximum number of attacks you are at least ensuring that he has some consistency.

      You have Cole, correct?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post
        It was a joke, hence me getting a shoe thrown at me. I've removed it.
        Originally posted by RLC Aramil View Post
        COLE
        His ability and usefulness was partly in debate even before this revamp. His targetting is still problematic. It is not uncommon he attacks just once in total especially if the enemy hit dies in one hit. And giving him just a little health and doing nothing else, while doubling health or power of near all single hitters, leaves him too weak. A decent (%25 - %30) increase in power shouldnt be too dangerous, especially with its current ability of targetting.

        Best Regards
        If you can't figure out what's wrong with Cole's mechanic (and I can only assume you can't, because I can count 3 or 4 times CG has claimed it's either fixed or working as intended and nothing has changed) then give him something to compensate.

        He's a unique unit in that he's the only one with that mechanic, but I only get maybe 3 or 4 hits from him 80-90% of the time.

        Cut his mechanic out and model it after Tamar/Riordan/etc. but up the percentage. 75% for 2nd attack, 50% for 3rd attack, 25% for 4th attack, and stop there. Then up his power accordingly. Or give him 25% power aura to Inquisition and Spirits.

        I would be willing to bet almost no one would consider that a nerf. Everyone that owns him just wants him to WORK.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by |WWJD| Riful of the West View Post
          I would like to give some +1's to the above and add...

          Cole needs to match his current card reading of up to 10 hits (he currently does not function as stated).
          • PLEASE DO NOT Nerf Cole by reducing his # of attacks, as sometimes suggested, but do fix the bug that is not allowing him to full hit 10 times.
            Cole is great because of the nature that he has the possibility of hitting 1-3 times or going crazy.
          • Simple give Cole a 10% chance to hit 10 times (easy fix = 10% each number of hits from 1 -10).
          • Do not make him flank, we have other toons for that purpose, currently he can neutralize LC and front row forcing opponent to use resist aura!
          Leaving his hit range from 1-10 makes him almost impossible to balance...and as hit likelihood to hit a greater number of times increases, the less his power can / should go up. If he gets to the point of averaging 4 hits, actually his power now is plenty high - as that means he's a 20k power quick round unit that will lay status effects all over the place. But with the average at 4 even, there will still be times when he hits 1/2 and doesn't help much. Honestly 1 in 10 times him hitting 10 units..wow. So even now, that means 1 in 10 hits he will be a 50,000 power quick unit. AC has the highest power in the game as proposed at 30k ... and he's slow unit.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Lord Woolsley View Post
            If you can't figure out what's wrong with Cole's mechanic (and I can only assume you can't, because I can count 3 or 4 times CG has claimed it's either fixed or working as intended and nothing has changed) then give him something to compensate.

            He's a unique unit in that he's the only one with that mechanic, but I only get maybe 3 or 4 hits from him 80-90% of the time.

            Cut his mechanic out and model it after Tamar/Riordan/etc. but up the percentage. 75% for 2nd attack, 50% for 3rd attack, 25% for 4th attack, and stop there. Then up his power accordingly. Or give him 25% power aura to Inquisition and Spirits.

            I would be willing to bet almost no one would consider that a nerf. Everyone that owns him just wants him to WORK.
            Actually I just responded above to WWJD Ritful that wants him to stay with a chance to hit 10 times...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JohnnySteel Alpha View Post
              Actually I just responded above to WWJD Ritful that wants him to stay with a chance to hit 10 times...
              And that's fine for his opinion. But I have a hard time calling anything to Cole's mechanic a "nerf" because A) it's never actually worked correctly, and B) is wildly inconsistent at the best of times.

              I think nerf is just a buzzword people like to use for "something I like less" and don't objectively look at changes in the broader picture. I would love for Cole to work as I think the devs envisioned when they thought him up. But I can count the times mine has gone over 8 hits on one hand.

              The problem is he stops in the first round if he manages to kill the FR and LC; whether it takes 6 hits or 3. And will only attack a BR toon if he starts his round with the FR toon gone. Now, on the surface, you can say, "So he stops if he wipes out 3 of the 5 on the opposing team? I'll take that." But currently his mechanic is based on finite scenarios dictated by the opposing squad setup. That's troublesome. You can put yourself in power gain or curse situations with BR toons that you'll never get a 2nd round out of Cole to do more.

              The problem with that is, unlike most setups being a mix of strategy with RNG, there is less RNG with Cole. Now, I like playing with RNG and tempting it to work in my favor. If I am running Inquisition with Cole as my only quick round, I know for a fact that nothing is touching the back row until the normal phase at the earliest. That is unlike any other strategy for a quick hitter in the game.

              That's why I prefaced my suggestion with, "if you can't figure out what's wrong with Cole's mechanic..." I would love to see him have a shot at the back row in the first round like every other toon in the game. Even the "more likely to" toons go out of that distinction from time to time. So if that means reassessing his mechanic, then I would never call it a nerf. Nor should anyone else. Fixing him would never be a nerf, it just might not look how some people want it to.

              Comment


              • #8
                +1 as another supporter for having Cole reviewed. Prior to the LC update Cole was "functional" though his mechanic certainly did not appear to be working correctly. With the increased LC stats, and now the increased tank stats the likely hood of Cole having much affect I believe will significantly drop unless he does attack 4+ times. His stun was useful but even that is diminished as more toons provide stun resistances. I have had far too many fights where he has hit once only to think of him as anything more than a novelty at the moment.

                Give Cole medium power gain that resets each round... Then if he does go on a multi hit rampage at least he can kill some of these new LC's and tanks and fix his targeting. Might make him scary in defense again and goes with "craziness".
                Last edited by Mors; 09-21-2015, 07:35 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Greeting JSA, Thanks for taking the time to address this in such detail. The way you take time to answer everyone and everything is a great benefit to HODA, thanks and hats off to you and gettypoppy for all your work in regards to these updates to our beloved units, everyday in everyway.

                  Everyone, please take all my comments as my personal humble opinion and JSA please do feel free to correct me if I am speaking out of place.

                  So in response to your quotes:
                  Originally posted by JohnnySteel Alpha View Post
                  ... So even now, that means 1 in 10 hits he will be a 50,000 power quick unit. AC has the highest power in the game as proposed at 30k ... and he's slow unit.
                  and
                  Actually I just responded above to WWJD Ritful that wants him to stay with a chance to hit 10 times...
                  To me these quotes seem to imply that Cole currently hits a full 10 times, which he cannot/does not. These quotes likewise imply that I am asking for something unreasonable, or perhaps even outside of what is already in the game.

                  Rather than comparing him to AC, how about with other quick round units, fully set-up units, WF who 10 out of 10 times each do minimum 48 000 damage each per round.

                  Riordan 2* who 1 in 10 hits (ie 10%) can go over 77 000 damage quick round or well over 140 000 damage if he hits his 2nd and 3rd hits (without crit).

                  I love this game n Cole is my 2nd fav (next to RLM who btw -- still needs her color changed to B/R, as promised, hint hint(cursepowergain), wink wink(cursepg), nudge nudge(curse)), so I love how Lord Woolsley said it:

                  Everyone that owns him just wants him to WORK.


                  I might differ a bit in that I simply would like Cole to work as stated on his card from 1-10 hits.

                  If that means, in all fairness as a 3*, only a small increase in power/power aura, or even no increase in power or health, so be it. But, please don't lower his number of hits from a 10 max as currently stated on his card, that will make Cole, in my personal opinion, something less effective or desirable.

                  As other single hitting units (with mulit-attacks) have a minimum 10% chance to "go crazy" (1* Tamar is at about 70%+ and well over 100k in my personal tests), then might I not reasonably propose a 10% chance for each hit from 1-10 in the update for 3* Cole simply to match what is stated on his card?

                  Thanks for listening JSA, gettypoppy and all you Hoda single hitting lovers out there!
                  God bless~
                  i

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am in total agreement with WWJD on this. Cole should be made to stand up with the other single hitters who are getting big time buffs. Most toons after these updates will be mostly stun resist and slow resist so his status ailment that he can inflict is not that great after this and his stats stink. I still think a perfect solution is to have small bump in power and to add curse power/ health to his hits with his other status ailments since most of the toons are gonna be resistant to these ailments. This in no way makes him OP, it makes him useful and not a total liability to just hit the other squad a couple times and charge up that squad for the nuclear counter attack. Even IB who was said was not getting any buff got a decent buff and Cole got nothing except a little health bump which does absolutely nothing. All these new single hitters are going to have major health and Cole will be a small gnat just hitting a time or 2 doing nothing. PLEASE add the curse power/ health with hit and a small power bump and he will be a good unit( not OP, but a good unit)
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lord Woolsley View Post
                      And that's fine for his opinion. But I have a hard time calling anything to Cole's mechanic a "nerf" because A) it's never actually worked correctly, and B) is wildly inconsistent at the best of times.

                      I think nerf is just a buzzword people like to use for "something I like less" and don't objectively look at changes in the broader picture. I would love for Cole to work as I think the devs envisioned when they thought him up. But I can count the times mine has gone over 8 hits on one hand.

                      The problem is he stops in the first round if he manages to kill the FR and LC; whether it takes 6 hits or 3. And will only attack a BR toon if he starts his round with the FR toon gone. Now, on the surface, you can say, "So he stops if he wipes out 3 of the 5 on the opposing team? I'll take that." But currently his mechanic is based on finite scenarios dictated by the opposing squad setup. That's troublesome. You can put yourself in power gain or curse situations with BR toons that you'll never get a 2nd round out of Cole to do more.

                      The problem with that is, unlike most setups being a mix of strategy with RNG, there is less RNG with Cole. Now, I like playing with RNG and tempting it to work in my favor. If I am running Inquisition with Cole as my only quick round, I know for a fact that nothing is touching the back row until the normal phase at the earliest. That is unlike any other strategy for a quick hitter in the game.

                      That's why I prefaced my suggestion with, "if you can't figure out what's wrong with Cole's mechanic..." I would love to see him have a shot at the back row in the first round like every other toon in the game. Even the "more likely to" toons go out of that distinction from time to time. So if that means reassessing his mechanic, then I would never call it a nerf. Nor should anyone else. Fixing him would never be a nerf, it just might not look how some people want it to.
                      The devs never intended him to ping ping ping across all the toons - he was always intended to be a non-BR targeting toon and hit the FR / LC. He functions like any single hitter in that way - when his turn starts, he has random ability to hit the FR / LC ... the issue is he kills stuff when he hits more than a few times (so he's really OP when he goes off). Also like other non-BR targeting units, he will skip to the BR once the FR has at least 1 toon missing.

                      Honestly....how often SHOULD he hit 10 times? Even now, that makes him a 50,000 power quick unit...that's ridiculous. He should hit on average about 3 times or so and be done.

                      I'm hearing in this thread some combo of 1. Raise his power 2. Make him hit more times....Ok...so we want Cole to be like a what..8,000 power and hit 5 times on average? 40,000 power Cole? In the quick round?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is a solid ground actually to compare cole to riordan.

                        Dual blue/red vs Dual black/white, equal.
                        Great groups vs Great groups, equal.
                        Quicks, equal.
                        Three star vs two star.
                        Stun immunity to one big group vs 50 drain resist to one big group Plus some niche auras, Arl hate and team bonus to blighted. Lets say difference between stars covers this and they are still equal so far.
                        Than pure stats;
                        15k health vs 18k health
                        5k power vs 21k self buffed power
                        15k - 20k average first round damage (my xp) vs 34k set average first round damage.
                        Chance of drain, stun and slow Vs Medium drain.
                        Average number of attacks 3.5 vs 1.2
                        (Lets say) On average 1 enemy slowed, 1 stunned and 1 drained vs 1.2 enemy drained. Remove drains from equation, cole slows and stuns one target.

                        This is comparing one by one. Above this riordan has a big power aura for his team. Should be considered also riordan becomes terrifying in dupes and keep supporting his team with drain immunity and more power, while cole lose potential with less auras and his team becomes weaker without any gain from him. Also it must be considered both slow and stun could be applied on same target. Finally with increasing resist and immunity auras cole will be less effective in delivering those status ailments.

                        My suggestions as Final words;
                        Impove health to 18k, equal with riordan.
                        Add curse power to balance the little extra left from star difference while equalizing auras. :-)
                        Add some sort of defensive aura to cover the last pragraph above. Drain immunity to spirits maybe.
                        Increase power to 7k, so average damage will be 21k - 28k. Still close to 10k less average damage compared to riordan, this should cover stun/slow.

                        I try to be objective, but with 2 fully built Cole's maybe i am not. :-) Feel free to criticize.

                        My last words on Cole, gettypoppy could we learn what you plan to add him in revamp round2? As new abilities.
                        OG:RLC Aramil

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mors View Post
                          +1 as another supporter for having Cole reviewed. Prior to the LC update Cole was "functional" though his mechanic certainly did not appear to be working correctly. With the increased LC stats, and now the increased tank stats the likely hood of Cole having much affect I believe will significantly drop unless he does attack 4+ times. His stun was useful but even that is diminished as more toons provide stun resistances. I have had far too many fights where he has hit once only to think of him as anything more than a novelty at the moment.

                          Give Cole medium power gain that resets each round... Then if he does go on a multi hit rampage at least he can kill some of these new LC's and tanks and fix his targeting. Might make him scary in defense again and goes with "craziness".
                          Cole is still crazy on defense and always has been. I fought a Cole in this PVP and he all by himself in 1 turn killed my FR Josephine and Dragon Morrigan. This PVP is where you can see him hit many times because the units have lots of health. He hit me 7 times with a mix of crits and crippling status effects along the way.

                          Cole is a beast as he is. I think there's just a lot of disappointment in Cole when he does the 1/2 hits and fizzles. This is why I think it's best to bring his variance down. Give him 6k power with a 2 hit minimum, but with an average of about 3.5 hits...this would get hit to 21k power on average. Could even take him to 7k power there.

                          EDIT: I've had Cole since he was first released. I didn't use him much....even at first. His variance was too great to use effectively as an attack unit. Always said, he's more sizzle than steak - he's a gimmick show in the D slot to cheese opponents. As long as that variance stays as it is, that's what Cole will be. Like Forrest said...a box of chocolates.

                          The 10 hit chance will also serve to keep his power low. CG has to balance power numbers to some standard. You can take the average, but they also have to consider his limits above the average because it does happen frequently where he hits 5+ times. It's not uncommon.

                          And I do agree with bane...have him curse power / health on each hit. Honestly, I think that could be his only updated, with maybe more health, and that's be a great update.

                          @RLC A - comparing GW to Inquisition though and saying they are equal is a big stretch. Wardens are well behind Inquisition. Cole has a ton of options in Inquisition being dual blue / red.
                          Last edited by JohnnySteel Alpha; 09-22-2015, 03:08 AM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by |WWJD| Riful of the West View Post
                            Greeting JSA, Thanks for taking the time to address this in such detail. The way you take time to answer everyone and everything is a great benefit to HODA, thanks and hats off to you and gettypoppy for all your work in regards to these updates to our beloved units, everyday in everyway.

                            Everyone, please take all my comments as my personal humble opinion and JSA please do feel free to correct me if I am speaking out of place.

                            So in response to your quotes:

                            and


                            To me these quotes seem to imply that Cole currently hits a full 10 times, which he cannot/does not. These quotes likewise imply that I am asking for something unreasonable, or perhaps even outside of what is already in the game.

                            Rather than comparing him to AC, how about with other quick round units, fully set-up units, WF who 10 out of 10 times each do minimum 48 000 damage each per round.

                            Riordan 2* who 1 in 10 hits (ie 10%) can go over 77 000 damage quick round or well over 140 000 damage if he hits his 2nd and 3rd hits (without crit).

                            I love this game n Cole is my 2nd fav (next to RLM who btw -- still needs her color changed to B/R, as promised, hint hint(cursepowergain), wink wink(cursepg), nudge nudge(curse)), so I love how Lord Woolsley said it:



                            I might differ a bit in that I simply would like Cole to work as stated on his card from 1-10 hits.

                            If that means, in all fairness as a 3*, only a small increase in power/power aura, or even no increase in power or health, so be it. But, please don't lower his number of hits from a 10 max as currently stated on his card, that will make Cole, in my personal opinion, something less effective or desirable.

                            As other single hitting units (with mulit-attacks) have a minimum 10% chance to "go crazy" (1* Tamar is at about 70%+ and well over 100k in my personal tests), then might I not reasonably propose a 10% chance for each hit from 1-10 in the update for 3* Cole simply to match what is stated on his card?

                            Thanks for listening JSA, gettypoppy and all you Hoda single hitting lovers out there!
                            God bless~
                            Cole actually will hit 10 times if the units he's hitting stay alive long enough. Once he kills stuff though he eliminates his potential targets. I saw him hit 10 times as did others when building / leveling him before he was forted. He's working as the devs intended. He hits the FR / LC till it's dead in that initial turn. He's NOT working as players want...and players want to see 1 toon hit all 5 toons 10 times and wipe the board in 1 hit.

                            Go find some supertanky inquisition teams in this PVP - and put Cole out there without power aura support. You'll see him attack at a much higher rate because the opponent isn't being killed and eliminating his targets.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JohnnySteel Alpha View Post
                              Cole is still crazy on defense and always has been. I fought a Cole in this PVP and he all by himself in 1 turn killed my FR Josephine and Dragon Morrigan. This PVP is where you can see him hit many times because the units have lots of health. He hit me 7 times with a mix of crits and crippling status effects along the way.

                              Cole is a beast as he is. I think there's just a lot of disappointment in Cole when he does the 1/2 hits and fizzles. This is why I think it's best to bring his variance down. Give him 6k power with a 2 hit minimum, but with an average of about 3.5 hits...this would get hit to 21k power on average. Could even take him to 7k power there.
                              i think cole should have 3 to 6 attack .
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                              It is important that members recognize the real-time nature of this forum: the moderators cannot always monitor the contents of posted messages, and as such depend upon you to inform them when participants or their messages are violating our policy as stated here. You must also recognize that they cannot respond immediately to such notices and that some time may pass before any warranted action is taken.

                              To contact a moderator, please use the Flag Post function on the post represented by a flag:


                              What happens if I break the rules?
                              At best, your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will be issued a warning. If the offense is more serious your post will be deleted. Posting "why was my post edited/deleted?" etc. will only make matters worse, so please don't. If a moderator has not sent you a message stating why, please send the Sr Moderator a message asking for a reason.

                              Should you have already been issued warnings and continue to break the rules, you will be issued an infraction - your posting privileges will be disabled for three days, but you will still be able to view the forums as a guest.

                              For persistent and deliberate rule-breakers your account will be "Banned". That means you are no longer welcome on these forums and/or games and your account will no longer function in them. If you re-register, your new account will be banned as well.

                              Posting Suggestions
                              In the attempt to create a compromise where everyone is happy, the following suggestions are also recommended:

                              1. Be civil and courteous. This forum is visited by people from all over the world, of different ages, genders, religions, and backgrounds, and are each entitled to their own opinion.
                              Also, see Flaming, Right to Privacy, and Hatred.

                              2. Make sure that your message topics fit the topic description of the forum in which you are posting. This is for your own benefit - for example, a question regarding a bug or problem should be posted in the Feedback section.

                              3. Use the search function before posting, particularly if the question is problem oriented. Most technical questions have been answered before, and solutions are freely available.

                              4. Make sure that you have followed #3 before posting

                              5. Read the sticky threads at the top of each forum - they are there for a reason, and generally contain information relevant to the forum.

                              6. Don't quote the entire message that you're responding to, only the pertinent passage. This makes it easier to read for other users.

                              7. If you find it easier to express yourself en français, auf Deutsch, en español, in Nederlands, in Italiano, or any other language, post in the International Discussion forum. Hopefully someone who speaks the same language as you will be able to assist you. All posts in other sections (non-International) of the forums must be in English, so please make use of Google Translate if you need assistance with translation. Posting in English will allow the widest range of people to assist you.

                              In addition to the Forum Rules, you are bound to the general EA Terms of Service both on these forums and in the game. Links to the TOS are as follows:

                              EA TOS English
                              EA TOS French
                              EA TOS German
                              EA TOS Russian
                              EA TOS Spanish
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