Ranking Toons by Power Fortification Effectiveness

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  • Ranking Toons by Power Fortification Effectiveness

    "The degree to which a consumption point is amplified" or "for your hard earned Euro/gem, into which toon does a consumption point give you the most value"? This is almost the same as "How much damage does a toon do?", the only difference being extra consumption points for LC fort food.

    This thread is a retitle of an older thread who's title can't be changed. Newer players are asking these questions, but not finding the older thread.

    I propose the following list sorted from most to least value per fort point. While Fort Effectiveness is measurable, using all the criteria to make the ranking is necessarily subjective (my opinion). Be very careful using this as I had to assume a number of conditions, any one of which may be different in your case and change the ranking. In some ways the best way of using this post is to understand how the ranking came together so you can better understand your own situation.

    Criteria for ordering (in rough order of priority)
    1. Application to # of opponents/toon power/toon auras/squad auras
    AoE amplifies more than single hitters (usually 5x)
    All these are baked into the FE factor explained below

    2. Initiative
    Quicker generally uses power more effectively

    3. Opponent power drain
    More than 50% (CZ) > 50% (Merril, DP etc.)

    4. Ally power growth
    50% exponential (KM, QA) > 25% Exponential (Byron)

    5. Personal power growth
    Insane (5x to 25x in 1 turn: Flemeth, Kolgrim) > Exponential (50% gain:GWG, GWO etc.)

    6. Ally heal
    Insane heal (Eirik) > 25% heal based on power (Wynne, Neria, GO, BroodMother)

    7. Type of Attack
    For 4x squads where it takes 2 hits to kill a FR opponent and 1 to kill the BR, a 4x row hitter will take 3 attacks and a column hitter 4 attacks to wipe the opposition.

    8. Survivability
    Can this toon last long enough to make a difference? e.g. Sky Horror hits really hard, but even with squad auras, probably won't last long enough

    9. How often the toon is used
    The more a toon's use, the more the effect of a fort is multiplied. Game dominance (like Bloodmages), membership in groups (more group membership can lead to inclusion in more squads)

    10. Long term viability as the game evolves
    A big consideration, but hard to quantify

    Nomenclature:
    Toon name(speed, attack type, ability affected by power), max power, FE, Squad FE, common squad

    FE=Fort effectiveness-a number which allows us to compare how much damage a fort can do
    FE=# attacked*max power*LC Consumption factor*self aura/1000

    LC Consumption factor=2/3 for LCs
    -it takes exactly 2/3 the consumption points per tier for a normal toon compared to an LC, so your forts don't go as far for an LC

    Squad FE=FE with auras added from the listed common squad formation
    -squad FE was really helpful in trying to compare toons with very different stats and abilities

    Common squad=a common formation of allies that give auras to the power of the toon in question

    The higher the FE, the more effective your fort.

    Toon name(speed, attack type, ability affected by power), max power, FE, Squad FE, common squad
    Flemeth(slow, AoE, crazy power gain), 4767, 23.8, 40.5, 2Morrigan
    Broodmother(slow, AoE, heal), 7266, 49.0, 85.4, 2TF
    Phoenix w/4WF(quick, AoE), 5914, 19.7, 59.0, 4WF/DF
    Danarius(normal, AoE), 5505, 27.5, 64.7, 2Caladrius/DF
    Crow Zevran(quick, row, drain), 8587, 21.6, 36.3, 2KM/Vart

    KeeperM(normal, AoE, power gain to allies), 3416, 21.4, 34.2, 2KM/Vart

    PSV(quick, column, drain), 5503, 14.9, 30.3, 4PSV/DF
    NH(quick, column, drain), 3669, 11.0, 24.6, 4NH/DF

    SPAL(quick, row), 5251, 18.4, 45.7, 4SPAL/DF
    EH(quick, row), 8774, 21.9, 41.2, 4EH/DF
    Alamarri Warlord(quick, column), 9056, 22.6, 42.6, 4AW/DF
    Ben(quick, AoE), 2665, 13.3, 38.0, 3Tallis/Ben/DF

    Sera(quick, row, chance of 2nd attack), 7597, 15.2, 30.4, 2KM/Vart
    Tallis(quick, row), 4825, 14.5, 32.3, 4Tallis/DF
    Witherfang(quick, row), 6073, 18.2, 40.7, 4WF/DF
    WF is lower than other quicks because stun makes power less important. Stunned opponent almost as good as dead opponent

    Neria(normal, AoE, ally heal), 5582, 34.9, 62.8, 2KM/Vart

    Seeker Cassandra(normal, column, drain), 8695, 23.5, 51.6, 50%Nobility/DF
    Merril(normal, AoE, drain), 3690, 18.5, 34.1, 2KM/Vart
    Sandal(normal, AoE, drain), 3691, 18.5, 43.4, 2RS/DF

    Lyrium Fenris(normal), 5344, 26.7, 49.4, 50%Nobility/DF
    GWG(normal,column, power gain), 7158, 4.3, 33.6, 2NH/DF
    AEG(normal,row, heal), 8646, 21.6, 36.3, 50%Nobility/DF

    Steel Golem(slow, AoE), 7438, 37.2, 50.2, 3Byron/DF
    Sophia Dryden(slow, column), 9592, 24.0, 49.9, 2NH/DF
    Kolgrim(slow, column, crazy power gain), 8695, 17.4, 40.9, 50%Outlaw bonus/DF
    GEF(normal, AoE), 2882, 14.4, 28.8, 2KM/Vart

    Phoenix w/no WF, 5914, 19.7, 19.7, health support to allies
    (Px rates higher than DF barely because Px will always get a hit in where DF is often dead before attacking)
    Dragon Flemeth, 8449, 38.0, 38.0, power support to allies
    DF w/4WF, 8449, 38.0, 94.3, 4WF/DF
    (DF doesn't play as much of a role with 4WF as DF doesn't need to be ultra powerful to clean up anything left and not stunned)

    CSQ(slow,row,drain), 9973, 13.3, 26.6, 2TF

    Gaxkang(slow, single), 17499, 17.5, 32.4, Baroness/DF
    Morrigan(slow, row), 5171, 14.0, 27.9, 2Morrigan

    LPH(normal, column, self heal), 8377, 16.8, 25.1, RS

    Byron(normal, single, ally power gain), 8776, 8.8, 8.8, DR squad
    Ariane(normal, row, drain), 3929, 7.9, 15.7, 2KM/Vart
    TF(normal, single, power gain), 7012, 10.5, 16.5, 2TF/BM
    The Architect(normal, single, self heal), 8341, 8.3, 19.6, 2TF/BM

    KA(slow, column, ally power gain), 5150, 10.3, 24.2, 2NH/DF
    Ancient Darkspawn(slow, single, chance of AoE drain), 7684, 7.7, 18.2, 2TF/BM

    Risen Ogre(normal, column, self heal/defender), 9252, 12.3, 12.3
    RLM(normal, AoE, power gain), 3655, 27.4, 27.4(against mages), DR squad
    GotU(slow, single, power gain), 12523, 12.5, 12.5, DR squad

    LMT(normal, single, drain), 5669, 7.1, 11.9, 50%Nobility/DF
    King Maric(normal, row, power gain), 5316, 10.6, 19.7, 50%Nobility/DF

    GO(slow, single, ally heal), 11028, 7.4, 7.4, DR squad w/Byron
    Eirik(slow, single, crazy ally heal), 3625, 4.5, 5.8, DF

    KCC(normal, single, power gain), 9742, 9.7, 9.7, DR squad
    PC(slow, row, self heal), 7815, 10.4, 15.6, RS

    GWO(slow, single, power gain), 8053, 8.1, 12.1, RS
    Brogan Dace(slow, single, power gain), 7706, 7.7, 11.6, RS
    GWS(quick, row), 7359, 14.7, 14.7, used in fighting Bloodmages primarily for Curse ability
    WCD(quick, single), 7915, 9.9, 15.8, 2EH/2WCD/DF

    Sky Horror(slow, AoE), 7526, 37.6, 69.6, Baroness, DF
    Schmooples(normal, single), 5669, 5.7, 5.7, DR squad

    n.b. I left off Varterral because its hit is usually too small to make any difference forted or not.

    n.b. At minimum, Flemeth only needs forts until with auras she hits for over 75k (forted Dan/Uldred health)
    At minimum, Kolgrim only needs power forts until 1 enemy death causes a hit for over 75k (forted Dan/Uldred health)

    n.b. Bloodmage gain is omitted as it's not dependant on the Bloodmage's own power. A reason why BD isn't higher

    n.b. Grey Warden bonus damage to Blighted isn't included as the level of complexity goes up and there just aren't that many times the two groups face off so far in HoDA
    Last edited by MAM_HoDA; 02-12-2015, 03:53 AM.
    "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
    Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

  • #2
    I didn't see EH on this list, but it appears she forts power very well. I have a TON of white Legs to use to fort, and debating making my EH squad at least T2 Leg forted in power, especially since all 5 slots open in the first 9. I don't do nearly as much number analysis, but it appears leg forting her power gives a nice gain.


    Ally Code: 541-772-992

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    • #3
      This pre-dated EH's release. I've added EH, and update Tallis (4Tallis is more common/useful than 3Tallis/Ben).

      Yes, EH is a good use of forts. If you're going to go to T2, why not go to T3? T2->T3 takes fewer consume points than T1->T2 if you're thinking of T2+T2 in the future. With 5 T3 forts + DF, EH hits for 23k.
      "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
      Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

      Comment


      • #4
        This pre-dated EH's release.

        I've now added EH, and updated Tallis (4Tallis is more common/useful than 3Tallis/Ben).

        Yes, EH is a good use of forts. If you're going to go to T2, why not go to T3? T2->T3 takes fewer consume points than T1->T2. This makes T3+T1 cheaper than T2+T2 if you're thinking of T4 in the future. With 5 T3 forts in a 4EH/DF squad, EH hits for 23191.

        Fort level/% of Max Stat
        4T1 epic/54.07%
        4T1 leg/73.39%
        5T1 leg/84.05%
        5T2 leg/88.29%
        5T3 leg/93.85%
        5T4 leg/100.00%
        Last edited by MAM_HoDA; 02-11-2015, 05:29 PM.
        "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
        Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MAM_HoDA View Post
          Yes, EH is a good use of forts. If you're going to go to T2, why not go to T3? T2->T3 takes fewer consume points than T1->T2 if you're thinking of T2+T2 in the future. With 5 T3 forts + DF, EH hits for 23k.
          I've debated it but honestly I am reaching "grinding/tiering fort food" burnout. I have about 50 white faction fort legs, and just looking to use some up. The problem is deciding on which team is best to do it. Debating Power Forting my EH, and total forting my 3 AEGs since they respond well to Leg forting as well.

          My stud white faction units are already generally at least T1 Leg forted, so it's the debate of to "overwrite" some leg forting already, or spread the love to a few different builds.

          The problem is once I start tiering up Leg forts from T2-->T3, I start telling myself, "well might as well go to T4" and it just turns into a LOT of grinding.


          Ally Code: 541-772-992

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hougz79 View Post
            I've debated it but honestly I am reaching "grinding/tiering fort food" burnout. I have about 50 white faction fort legs, and just looking to use some up. The problem is deciding on which team is best to do it. Debating Power Forting my EH, and total forting my 3 AEGs since they respond well to Leg forting as well.

            My stud white faction units are already generally at least T1 Leg forted, so it's the debate of to "overwrite" some leg forting already, or spread the love to a few different builds.

            The problem is once I start tiering up Leg forts from T2-->T3, I start telling myself, "well might as well go to T4" and it just turns into a LOT of grinding.
            You sound like you might consider T4 forted squads now or later.

            I hate using T1 forts without a plan. If I know I'm going to go T4 at some point, I'm happy to throw in common T1 leg forts (Wisps are the best, because currently, they are always available) knowing that I can add a T3 later for T4 e.g. Dan's P&H, BD H

            If it's something like EH, I'm not sure that T4 for twice the effort is warranted over T3, so ironically I wouldn't use T1 leg fort, but wait until I have a T3 to fort.

            In this era of easy drops, I don't think T3->T4 the hard way is warranted because you can do T2->T3 twice for each T3->T4. T3+T1 is probably better for your resources. I've not seen that statement proved, and I think perhaps I should write that post.
            "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
            Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks MAM. I agree. The era of easy drops as skewed my priorities. I used to be very content in 2.0 dropping in a T1 Leg to fortify my studs. It seemed back then only the true whales and top players did any heavier of forting. I could be quite competitive with T1 Leg forting. I think you still can to a point, but it is "easier" to heavy fort characters now. So I find myself trying to heavy fort everything. I have a T4 Total Forted SD and a T3 Total forted SD, and they both are beasts, I can't tell the difference. Maybe I'll just have to shelve my OCD and be happy with T3 forts.

              The more I think of it, I know T3 gives about 94% max (but my OCD reminds me that since I got that far, why not go to 100%), and with more recent toons that respond to forting better I think T3 will be my new norm. I am still working on T4 Forting my KMs and Merrills though, becasue since they are older toons, it's almost depressing how little fort value you get heavy forting them. But they need all the points they can get to offset their "dated" stats.

              Thanks again MAM


              Ally Code: 541-772-992

              Comment


              • #8
                Phoenix needs to be in here. His quick hit could use fortification even if it just softens team a bit more.
                also, WCD and GWS
                173-223-415. OL General

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sajon View Post
                  Phoenix needs to be in here. His quick hit could use fortification even if it just softens team a bit more.
                  also, WCD and GWS
                  This post predated all those toons except maybe WCD. Without doing calcs, WCD probably wasn't included as he's such a poor use of forts relative to others: single hitter, small aura, best ally team gives medium power aura, only 5% Bloodmage type power gain that really only shows in round 2.

                  Phoenix, GWS, WCD added.
                  Last edited by MAM_HoDA; 02-12-2015, 03:53 AM.
                  "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
                  Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

                  Comment

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