Dodgers/Avengers against the Overlords

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  • Dodgers/Avengers against the Overlords

    Ending the rule of 4xNH,PSV,AW or any set of single or column hitters.

    (With apologies to cricket/football/cycling/table tennis fans outside of N. America))

    In the following thread, our community voted that squad construction strategy was the most enjoyed part of PvP. To this end, having counters to seemingly unbeatable squads (Rock/Paper/Scissors meme) moves the game in this more enjoyable direction. Once the formerly Op/Overlord squads become a liability in the defense slot, PvP will become even more varied and enjoyable.

    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...anking-rewards

    At the end of this post, I list the counters to the rest of dominant/seemingly unbeatable Overlord/Op squads (Rock/Paper/Scissors)

    Avenger-one who takes revenge when teammates are attacked and killed.

    Dodge-the toon ability "less likely to be hit". This was once referred to as the dodge ability.

    Taunt-the toon ability "more likely to be hit". This was once referred to as the taunt ability.

    In taking down Witherfang, we used WFs natural tendency to hit the back row. column or single hitters don't have a natural tendency, so as in aikido, we can guide their power..

    Consider:

    FR: Dodger,Taunting Tank
    BR:Avenger, Health Giver
    LC:Taunter

    vs. 4NH,4PSV,4AW, combinations, single hitters

    We need to call:
    a) LeCo: the column with Dodger and Avenger the Left Column
    b) RiCo: the column with Taunting Tank and Health Giver the Right Column
    c) LC: The Large Creature

    The Dodge ability is quite strong and works more consistently than the Taunt.
    e.g.
    FR: Warden Commander Duncan, Brogan Dace
    BR: Danarius, Morrigan
    LC:Snug
    (This may be one of the best squads as Snug has strong Taunt, Snug buffs BD, BD takes 25% less damage, Morrigan buffs everyone and Dan goes before most LCs. BD doesn't have strong taunt, so StA may be needed if the attackers aren't cooperating)

    Against the 4x squad, we are channelling their 4 hits into the RiCo and LC. Then the Avenger (Danarius here) responds and kills everything. We need the RiCo and LC to take 2 of those 4 hits without dying and have the next 2 hits kill RiCo and LC. The Dodge keeps the hits away from LeCo and Taunt pulls the hits towards RiCo and LC.

    This strategy is open to everyone. It can even be implemented with an FEO if the FEO can handle the LC. Dan is ideal as he moves before most LCs.

    You should be able to construct something that wins greater than 9/10 times.

    It seems that Dodge works better against column hitters when the Dodger is in the front row, but this testing was done during PvP and only so many combinations could be tested without losing position.

    You can run this strategy successfully with a non-taunting tank like SG, but occasionally if your opponent has killed the FR Health Giver, the 2nd/3rd hit may bypass the FR Tank and hit the BR 1 time in 5. Having the tank taunt gives you more security.

    Sometimes with high health (PSV/AW) and/or boosted toons, unless the attacking toons crit or the Avenger crits, the avenging strike isn't powerful enough. This may indicate Flemeth whose power is independant of crits.

    The more the Dodge and the more the Taunt, the better this works. (listing of toons at end)

    Remember that this can work with single hitters as well.

    Testing:
    FR: WCD (heavy dodge), Slave Statue (heavy taunt) BR: empty LC: Snug (heavy taunt)
    Likelihood of single hitter hitting WCD: 2.9%
    Likelihood of single hitter hitting SS: 36.5%
    Likelihood of single hitter hitting Snug: 60.6%
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...entages-tested

    -----------
    Dodging/Taunting Toons

    Strong Dodge: Warden Commander Duncan, Duncan, Captain Isabella, Sera, Crow Zevran,
    Dodge: Isabella, Ser-Pounce-a-Lot, Shah Wyrd, Lyrium Fenris, Arlathan General, Varric Tethras, Athenril

    Strong Taunt: Sten the Arishok, Slave Statue,
    Taunt: King Endrin Aeducan, Knight Captain Cullen, The First, Brogan Dace, Seeker Cassandra, Kolgrim, Justice, Schmooples, The Withered, The Arishok, Chevalier, Salit, Aveline Vallen

    Strong Taunt LC: Snug, Dragon Thrall, Behemoth
    Taunt LC: Dragon Flemeth, High Dragon, Pride Demon, Bereskarn

    Avengers: (AoE toon powered by enemy attacks) Danarius, Uldred, FEO, Flemeth. Non Avenger AoE's might work if they have enough power e.g. Merril, RLM etc.
    ------------------
    Rock/Paper/Scissors meme (giving every Overlord squad a counter)

    Overlord Uldred/Blight squad counter
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...e-Mage-Project
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...394-4x-KM-Vart

    Overlord Witherfang squad counter
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...-puzzle-solved!

    Overlord Dan/(cheaper) Witherfang Blood Mage squad counter
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...-the-Overlords

    Overlord SPL/Tallis squad counter
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...-the-Overlords

    Overlord NH/PSV/AW squad counter
    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showthread.php/72640-Dodgers-Avengers-against-the-Overlords
    Last edited by MAM_HoDA; 02-20-2015, 08:47 AM.
    "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
    Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

  • #2
    In this past PvP, PSV had no bonus, nor did BD, Dan, WCD or Snug. I managed to hunt down 2 4xPSV/DF teams.

    I attacked using
    FR: WCD,BD
    BR: Dan,Morrigan
    LC: Snug

    PSV 15570/51437
    BD health 14555, BD almost never died but couldn't handle 2 PSV crits. (BD only forted 2/5 slots)

    Stats WCD FR
    30 of 37 times, LeCo ignored(Dan protected by WCD dodge and Snug/BD taunt)

    Stats WCD BR-ran experiment to see whether WCD dodge determined by FR or BR
    0 wins, 4 losses, each time LeCo hit. PSV is definitely seeing FR when targeting a column.

    Maybe PSV sometimes targets BR despite FR still alive, and that's why the LeCo gets hit despite 1 dodge, 2 taunts pulling PSV away.

    Given these stats, and in this particular case, HO/2VA/2Uldred would have been better. However, this strategy can scale with column hitter power.

    Also, I've seen strange behavior like this before. I was about 12 wins, 2 losses initially, and then everything went bad for a while, racking up losses. I've seen this in PvP in anti WF, anti Tallis squads: Things go well, then very badly, then average out. It's probably psychology, but when you keep stats, it's a weird trend.
    Last edited by MAM_HoDA; 12-29-2014, 04:44 AM.
    "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
    Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

    Comment


    • #3
      Update OP with testing results using heavy taunt non-LC (Slave Statue). This could become a 97% win counter with heavy taunt!
      "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
      Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

      Comment

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