2*/3* Explanation - from a previous thread

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • 2*/3* Explanation - from a previous thread

    Hi all,

    In a response to another thread - I laid out a more detailed description of our intent for what 2*/3* mean relative to 1*.

    I am reposting that here for posterity.

    2* and 3* heroes were introduced to support the concepts we had indirectly introduced with Dragon Flemeth - e.g. the much rarer, more powerful Legendary heroes. We did this because introducing new rarities was extremely complicated - and frankly, still is.

    2* and 3* heroes ARE intended to be new "mini-rarities" - thus harder to obtain and more potent to a reasonable scale, which I'll discuss shortly.

    They aren't intended to have the potency differential that say Rare to Epic, or Epic to Legendary has - it is meant to be a smaller step. There isn't a fixed percentage - because many of the factors that make a hero more potent aren't numerical in nature - but the level cap increase should provide a general indication.

    So an Epic is capped at level 65 at tier, and a Legendary 1* is capped at 85. A simple indicator for expected difference would be the % difference in level cap. This is about a 31% increase (note: I am dividing 85/65)

    Using this same comparison... a 2* Legendary to 1* is (in a very rough approximation) is about a 6% increase, and a 3* to 1* is about 12%.

    In reality, 2*/3* have had inconsistent increases over 1*, and in some cases - there are 1*'s more powerful than 2*/3*. The intent is that a 2* is more like roughly 15% increase over a 1*, and a 3* is about a 25% increase. Substantial - but not a completely new rarity class differential.

    Originally, the actual drop rates of 2* and 3* were extremely low - and they have started to loosen over time. As part of the pack revamp - drop rates will be more in-line with intended differential in potency rather than arbitrarily and significantly reduced in drop rate.

    It will still be a minority of the overall Legendary drop rate - but likely somewhere in between current GCP rates and the inflated drop rate of the WoT Pack due to it's limited nature (due to reasons listed previously).

    Apologies, but I am not going to give specific percentages because they do fluctuate from time to time

  • #2
    I'm not sure I understand. If the intention was to introduce heroes that were rarer but had a rather insignificant increase in stats and abilities over many 1*s, then it would make sense that they should be hard to get. However, we are now finding that a very large number of legendary heroes in the codex are 2*/3* (somewhere around 1/3 of them now I believe?) - not at all proportionate to the 1*s in terms of their inteded rarity and definitely not proportionate when it comes to their usefulness, especially now that we are seeing so many powerful and useful new 1*s such as Korbin and Maddox which vastly outclass older 2*s. Just look at Imperial Archon. His stats are downright pitiful. Compare him to a very common 1* Tevinter Mage, Danarius, and you might see what I mean. After all this inconsistency with the real value of stars, is it really in the best interest of players (especially F2P or those of us who have a small spending budget) to reduce the availability of these multi-star heroes? I thought having a lot of 2*s as PVP rewards lately, especially at the top 500 bracket, was a sign that they were going to increase availability. Are there going to be other means through which low spenders like myself will be able to get some of the older 2*/3*, such as new Nexus Events, or is there a star system overhaul that players should be looking for in the future?
    Proud Member of OG:RLC
    Founder of The Sixth Blight
    I used to be the dragon god of destruction. Then I took a Dragonborn in the soul...

    Ally Code: 448-544-837

    Hero attack names from days gone by

    Comment


    • #3
      The explanation makes sence when there was only a handful. Now that there is one released every week and they fill a significant portion of the codex the rarity does not make sence. I think releasing 2* and 3* heroes in in rarities more than double the rarity of a standard leg is a mistake that will just lead to frustration with the game. People keep playing to get the characters they desire but there must be a reasonable expectation of attaining them or it leads to frustration and people leaving the game. Each week releasing a one star and a 2or3 is also a mistake in my opinion. I don't desire any of the new 1 star characters because each week they pale in comparison to the better toon standing beside them.....
      First Enchanter Dave, (in the game) Ally Code 176-649-612 SWAG

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Alduin The World Eater View Post
        I'm not sure I understand. If the intention was to introduce heroes that were rarer but had a rather insignificant increase in stats and abilities over many 1*s, then it would make sense that they should be hard to get. However, we are now finding that a very large number of legendary heroes in the codex are 2*/3* (somewhere around 1/3 of them now I believe?) - not at all proportionate to the 1*s in terms of their inteded rarity and definitely not proportionate when it comes to their usefulness, especially now that we are seeing so many powerful and useful new 1*s such as Korbin and Maddox which vastly outclass older 2*s. Just look at Imperial Archon. His stats are downright pitiful. Compare him to a very common 1* Tevinter Mage, Danarius, and you might see what I mean. After all this inconsistency with the real value of stars, is it really in the best interest of players (especially F2P or those of us who have a small spending budget) to reduce the availability of these multi-star heroes? I thought having a lot of 2*s as PVP rewards lately, especially at the top 500 bracket, was a sign that they were going to increase availability. Are there going to be other means through which low spenders like myself will be able to get some of the older 2*/3*, such as new Nexus Events, or is there a star system overhaul that players should be looking for in the future?
        The point I was making is that 2*/3* are expected to have better potency than 1*'s. There has absolutely been some inconsistency to that over the lifetime - and we are trying to remedy that.

        In terms of availability, between more 2*'s making an appearance in PvP rewards, and the above clarification that we expect 2*/3* drop rates to increase over historical GCP rates - we're absolutely intending to increase availability... within reason.

        And, yes, we will be revisiting the significant inconsistencies in 2*/3* weakness in the coming revamps. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to deal with the 1*'s that are over expected potency... as we don't intend to "nerf" any heroes. That said, see my replies under the single hitter thread for some ideas on how we may deal with the most obvious nastiness.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Myrhstahd View Post
          In terms of availability, between more 2*'s making an appearance in PvP rewards, and the above clarification that we expect 2*/3* drop rates to increase over historical GCP rates - we're absolutely intending to increase availability... within reason.

          And, yes, we will be revisiting the significant inconsistencies in 2*/3* weakness in the coming revamps. Unfortunately, it will be difficult to deal with the 1*'s that are over expected potency... as we don't intend to "nerf" any heroes.
          This is exactly what I (and I'm sure a lot of players) were hoping to hear. I doubt anyone expects any 1* nerfs anyway, but I do want to thank you on behalf of all HoDA players for the amazing work the development team is doing to make this game better.
          Proud Member of OG:RLC
          Founder of The Sixth Blight
          I used to be the dragon god of destruction. Then I took a Dragonborn in the soul...

          Ally Code: 448-544-837

          Hero attack names from days gone by

          Comment


          • #6
            Honestly, if 2*s had 85% the drop rate of 1* and 3* had 75% of the drop rate of 1% (going by the potency numbers from above)I think that would be fine really.
            IGN: l l January l l
            Ally code: 544-577-356
            Spectre Status Recognized

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by January View Post
              Honestly, if 2*s had 85% the drop rate of 1* and 3* had 75% of the drop rate of 1% (going by the potency numbers from above)I think that would be fine really.
              That's really not how rarity works in RPGs or similar systems. Any increase in Potency tends to have a non-corresponding higher increase in rarity/effort to obtain. This is especially true at the top end of meta in such games.

              Potency and rarity/effort to obtain don't correlate in this way. That said... these are being re-evaluated because the disparity needs to be adjusted with how the game is maturing.

              Myrh

              Comment


              • #8
                Would it make sense to have Multi-Star tiers drop at a 5% rate of Single-Star Legendaries, and then to differentiate 2-Star from 3-Star, occasionally offer the 2-Star toons as PVP awards but never offer 3-Star toons in any format other than packs?
                -Eddicvs (Ally Code 154-762-189)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Edward Ng View Post
                  Would it make sense to have Multi-Star tiers drop at a 5% rate of Single-Star Legendaries, and then to differentiate 2-Star from 3-Star, occasionally offer the 2-Star toons as PVP awards but never offer 3-Star toons in any format other than packs?
                  Without discussing hard numbers - I would say 5% or 1 in 20 for a 2*/3* is too low.

                  It's tough for me to talk about hard numbers here because often times what I am "discussing" is taken as hard promise/fact - it is one of the reasons we rarely go into specific drop rates etc.

                  Right now given the guarantee, the WoT pack baselines a 1 in 6 pack drop rate - but in practice, it is much higher because that is the absolute lowest - and because of the intergroup No Dupe behavior. You can assume that the effective drop rate on WoT is higher than it would be long-term.

                  You can definitely expect to start seeing 2* fairly often as PvP rewards, and even Nexus event drops. (Not likely on Daily ones).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Myrhstahd View Post
                    Without discussing hard numbers - I would say 5% or 1 in 20 for a 2*/3* is too low...
                    Now I'm stoked. I was going off what SEEMS like the current odds of a multi-star drop in GCP (which feels like 1%), and thought that asking for 5% was already asking too much. Now you're saying even 5% seems too low!!!
                    -Eddicvs (Ally Code 154-762-189)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Think about it this way - a GCP has two guaranteed Legs and a chance at another. So let's say 2.25 "chances" at a 2/3* - except with the guarantee - you get a 2/3* on the 8th pack. So that means the baseline is already 1 in 18 (8 * 2.25) - what we're really looking at is how much better is it than that in normal conditions such that I wouldn't have to buy 8 packs to get a 2/3*.

                      What players are actually concerned with is what are my chances in those first 7 packs? Does it feel like I have much of a chance when buying 1 GCP that it might be a 2/3*?

                      Myrh

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't suppose this commentary has much value now given we're in this stage of development, but I believe whenever you're talking about having a class of increased rarity and potency, they should make sense according to the lore. I understand how the flow of characters worthy of Legendary status will very quickly run dry so to keep the game going, you have to add more Legendaries. But personally, this creates a big disconnect to the DA universe. However, I must say I find Legs such as the Avvar Goats, Schoomples, Sir-Pounce-a-Lot (while Snug and Barkspawn deserve to be Legs) to be very funny. I do plan on creating an excel file that re-organizes the rarity status of the current Legs according to the lore, just for kicks.

                        As much as I am okay with chasing Legs, it's obvious that other rarity classes have taken a backseat to gameplay and I wonder what other players and CG feel about this? We did see a small revival when CG added Epics like the Bull's Chargers etc. but it has stopped since. Are you okay with a reverse pyramid hero population of this order: Leg > Epic > Rare > Uncommon > Common? It makes sense because toons of lower rarities are mainly for new players, and for consumption so in the long run, Legs are what keeps the playerbase. But this also means many new Legs will make less sense lore-wise.

                        I know, I know, I understand that some disconnect to the lore is required, after all, we need to keep the game balanced and mages can't reign supreme flashiness-wise. Warriors (and most mages, even) aren't supposed to know how to heal (we haven't seen many non-mage healers although one must assume they exist). The same goes to auras and other mechanics. Anyway, my thoughts are all over the place. I just wanted to know everyone's opinions, how does lore come into play when designing/rebalancing gameplay?
                        Ally Code: 677-262-875

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          What about the two quick Tevinters with 2*? AT & IA
                          They are not more pwerful then any 1* Tevinters. They do not provide any unique quality except being quick, which in most Tevinter/Blood Mage events is a liability. AT has Demon Aura? At least change his Aura to Tevinter instead of Demons and give them both stats deserving of a 2*
                          173-223-415. OL General

                          Comment

                          Announcement

                          Collapse

                          Forum Rules and Disciplinary Actions

                          These rules set boundaries to ensure that the EA Capital Games games and forums continue to be a friendly place where members can learn and share information on a variety of computing and non-computing topics. Heroes of Dragon Age and its forums are available to players 13 and older, refrain from excessive cursing/swearing. For more information, please see this link.

                          By accessing the EA Capital Games applications, users agree to accept that game administrators and moderators may remove any content submitted by a player as defined below. Users agree to EA Terms of Service as well. Misrepresenting oneself to engage in illegal activity will be immediately reported to EA for legal action.

                          Even though these are forums to allow free expression of ideas, there are other (real) people involved and one should respect their opinions and questions as ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THE TOPIC HEADINGS. Moderators are here to uphold and enforce the Terms of Service. Freedom to express your ideas, concerns, suggestions, and feedback, does not allow you the freedom of saying anything you want when you agree to the Terms of Service.

                          Unless otherwise stated, courses of action will be as follows:

                          1. First Offense - Warning
                          2. Second Offense - 3 day ban
                          3. Third Offense - 1 week ban
                          4. Fourth Offense - Permanent ban


                          If you have received a Permanent ban, this will extend to all future accounts created. If you are discovered to create a new account, it will also be banned.


                          What is not permitted in the discussion forum:

                          Advertising
                          Advertising or soliciting other members to buy, sell, or peruse any products or services including other applications or accounts, along with chain letters and junk mail.

                          Topics/posts that contain this will be both edited and closed or deleted, and an immediate 3-day ban will be issued without warning.


                          Hatred
                          Racism, bigotry, misogyny, hate speech, discrimination against any race, sexual preference, gender, or religion will not be tolerated.

                          All topics/posts will be deleted. Death threats, even joking, will be deleted and an immediate 3-day ban will be issued without warning, with further review from the Sr Moderator.


                          Flaming
                          Flaming includes material that is knowingly defamatory, illegal, abusive, threatening or harassing.

                          As with anything, you, as a member, should use good common sense when posting. In other words, you agree not to be a jerk. Posts containing personal attacks on another user will be edited/deleted at the moderators’ will.

                          Flaming or bashing of EA/CG, the devs, or the mods is not allowed. All posts/threads will be deleted.


                          Right to Privacy
                          You will not violate a person's privacy by publishing against another members will, information that is private and personal. Nor will you post private communication between EA Capital Games Support, other forum members, moderators, community managers, administrators, EA Capital Games employees, or partners of EA Capital Games on these forums or anywhere else.

                          Unless expressly endorsed by EA Capital Games, publicizing any correspondence of a private nature such as support tickets, email, Private Messages (PM) or chat logs thereof by any medium is NOT permitted.

                          Discussing or posting of another players spending habits will be deleted.


                          Spamming
                          Obvious spam (repetitive nonsense posts) will result in the poster permanently banned and all posts deleted.


                          Porn
                          Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene is not permitted on these forums.

                          Topics/posts containing such will be deleted on sight. Forum poster will be permanently banned from the forums.


                          Warez
                          Providing or asking for information regarding the illegal downloading of "warez", "gamez" or any other software protected by copyright.


                          Future Events/Promotions
                          Any posts or threads revealing future events or promotions that were not disclosed by the Capital Games team will be deleted.


                          Cross-posting
                          Posting the same question in more than one forum is not allowed. Should this occur, then only the thread in the most relevant forum will be left open; all others will be locked/closed and subsequently deleted.


                          Cheating
                          The use of any exploits or known bugs or editing of files in order to gain an unfair advantage while playing, will result in a permanent game and forum ban.

                          Accusing another player of cheating will result in your post/thread being deleted and a message sent to you, stating to refrain from further accusations. If continued accusations occur, a forum ban will result. If you believe a player to be cheating, send a PM to the Community Manager with as much detail as possible.

                          Please privately contact the Community Manager in order to submit an inquiry regarding this behavior.


                          Off-Topic Posting
                          Taking over a thread by posting excessively off-topic is not allowed. Off-Topic posts and any responses will be moved to their own, new thread if possible, or else deleted.


                          Political Posting
                          Because political beliefs, like religion, are a personal and sensitive topic, avoid posting about politics on the forums.


                          Customer Support Inquiries
                          All inquiries regarding Customer Support should be routed through the online web portal for support. The Community Manager and Moderators are unable to assist with inquiries regarding support tickets. Posting your ticket number and requesting assistance on the forums will result in the post being deleted. Sending a Private Message to the Community Manager or Moderators about CSR Inquiries is not to be tolerated, and will be ignored.

                          Additionally, all interactions with Customer Support are considered confidential, and all issues are handled on a case-by-case basis. As such, posts containing transcripts or results of your interactions with Customer Support will be edited or deleted.


                          Violation of these terms is grounds for removal from EA Capital Games games and a report to Facebook.


                          What should I do if I see objectionable material on the forums?
                          It is important that members recognize the real-time nature of this forum: the moderators cannot always monitor the contents of posted messages, and as such depend upon you to inform them when participants or their messages are violating our policy as stated here. You must also recognize that they cannot respond immediately to such notices and that some time may pass before any warranted action is taken.

                          To contact a moderator, please use the Flag Post function on the post represented by a flag:


                          What happens if I break the rules?
                          At best, your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will be issued a warning. If the offense is more serious your post will be deleted. Posting "why was my post edited/deleted?" etc. will only make matters worse, so please don't. If a moderator has not sent you a message stating why, please send the Sr Moderator a message asking for a reason.

                          Should you have already been issued warnings and continue to break the rules, you will be issued an infraction - your posting privileges will be disabled for three days, but you will still be able to view the forums as a guest.

                          For persistent and deliberate rule-breakers your account will be "Banned". That means you are no longer welcome on these forums and/or games and your account will no longer function in them. If you re-register, your new account will be banned as well.

                          Posting Suggestions
                          In the attempt to create a compromise where everyone is happy, the following suggestions are also recommended:

                          1. Be civil and courteous. This forum is visited by people from all over the world, of different ages, genders, religions, and backgrounds, and are each entitled to their own opinion.
                          Also, see Flaming, Right to Privacy, and Hatred.

                          2. Make sure that your message topics fit the topic description of the forum in which you are posting. This is for your own benefit - for example, a question regarding a bug or problem should be posted in the Feedback section.

                          3. Use the search function before posting, particularly if the question is problem oriented. Most technical questions have been answered before, and solutions are freely available.

                          4. Make sure that you have followed #3 before posting

                          5. Read the sticky threads at the top of each forum - they are there for a reason, and generally contain information relevant to the forum.

                          6. Don't quote the entire message that you're responding to, only the pertinent passage. This makes it easier to read for other users.

                          7. If you find it easier to express yourself en français, auf Deutsch, en español, in Nederlands, in Italiano, or any other language, post in the International Discussion forum. Hopefully someone who speaks the same language as you will be able to assist you. All posts in other sections (non-International) of the forums must be in English, so please make use of Google Translate if you need assistance with translation. Posting in English will allow the widest range of people to assist you.

                          In addition to the Forum Rules, you are bound to the general EA Terms of Service both on these forums and in the game. Links to the TOS are as follows:

                          EA TOS English
                          EA TOS French
                          EA TOS German
                          EA TOS Russian
                          EA TOS Spanish
                          See more
                          See less
                          Working...
                          X