Targeting - Explanation

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  • #16
    Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post

    It's not a multiplier, it's just a weighting increase. The same increase as any standard flank ability (+25,000 weighting), except it's given to all of MP's allies.



    Same here, it's not a multiplier. It depends on the gear, but I mentioned above the 3 specific pieces of gear that have targeting auras and what the amount is.
    Thank you for the response. I like numbers, so this thread is awesome to me.
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    • #17
      Awesome Getty poppy, this helps a great deal to understand targetting strategy, thanks for taking the time.
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      • #18
        gettypoppy What about marking ability of Saboteur Hawkes? Does it simply add weighting to SH's target?
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        • #19
          Originally posted by Zanozza View Post
          gettypoppy What about marking ability of Saboteur Hawkes? Does it simply add weighting to SH's target?
          Yep, it adds a set weighting value to the marked enemy for all allies, which is currently set to 5,000.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post

            Maul of the Dragon (target large creatures) is weight 2,000. The Ancestor's Greaves (flank) is standard flank weighting 25,000. Skywatcher's Cleaver (brave targeting) is weight 5,000.
            This is very helpful. I've been wondering lately if this was in fact working with regard to Maul of the Dragon. I recently placed it on Fairbanks and have not noticed a significant change with his targeting. Seeing that it has a lower number in weighting helps me to understand why. Thanks for posting this.


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            • #21
              Very good explanation!
              Thanks GP!

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              • #22
                Thanks for the explanation. It helps a lot in team building. On that note id like to ask (maybe start a new thread...) as to how "attack multiple targets" work. As in deepstalker matriarchs attack upto 5 targets... random number?

                And about rjs brave targeting, if she attacks for the 1st time at the strongest, and lets say the oppenent has a power gainer, does she change target midway?

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                • #23
                  Hey, I had a question regarding Wounded Targeting. Not sure if this has been brought up elsewhere, but my Ghost of the Spire has a rebound dagger equipped, and whenever he goes first his attacks are pretty much all over the place. From what I've seen, he will attack pretty much anyone in the other squad regardless of positioning. Should I assume that if all of the targets have 100% health, then they all get that added 2,000-5,000 weighting? I initially assumed that they'd simply have nothing added until someone lost health, but it appears to be the opposite.

                  I haven't tested specifically with taunting/elusive enemies yet, but I know that I have seen him attack some elusive characters despite only having the wounded targeting.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by e-man View Post
                    Thanks for the explanation. It helps a lot in team building. On that note id like to ask (maybe start a new thread...) as to how "attack multiple targets" work. As in deepstalker matriarchs attack upto 5 targets... random number?

                    And about rjs brave targeting, if she attacks for the 1st time at the strongest, and lets say the oppenent has a power gainer, does she change target midway?

                    Each time a hero performs an attack, a new target is selected. However, power gains and drains only happen after all of the attacks have completed, so in the case of RJS, if there is another enemy that gains power when allies are hit, that power gain won't trigger until RJS finishes her attacks - meaning it won't affect her targeting.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Flerm View Post
                      Hey, I had a question regarding Wounded Targeting. Not sure if this has been brought up elsewhere, but my Ghost of the Spire has a rebound dagger equipped, and whenever he goes first his attacks are pretty much all over the place. From what I've seen, he will attack pretty much anyone in the other squad regardless of positioning. Should I assume that if all of the targets have 100% health, then they all get that added 2,000-5,000 weighting? I initially assumed that they'd simply have nothing added until someone lost health, but it appears to be the opposite.

                      I haven't tested specifically with taunting/elusive enemies yet, but I know that I have seen him attack some elusive characters despite only having the wounded targeting.
                      So this case gets a little weird. The way that targeting works in code is that it iterates through all 5 enemies and re-sorts them in a list based on whatever metric the hero is targeting by, then takes the first enemy in the re-sorted list and adds the target weighting to that enemy. So in the case of wounded targeting, it sorts the enemies in ascending order by percentage of health remaining and targets the first enemy in the list, which is the one with the lowest percentage health remaining. You might already see the problem here. There is no fallback logic in the case that all enemies in the list are equal for that particular metric... so if all enemies have 100% health it still sorts them in ascending order and still targets the first enemy in the list. In the case of Ghost of the Spire, who has no other targeting mechanics, it's targeting a random enemy in the first round since you never know which enemy will end up first in the sorting.

                      We could certainly update the code to break out and ignore the targeting if all enemies are equal on whatever metric we're looking at (which is how it should have been made in the first place, if we're being honest). But as with everything, it's a question of how big a problem this is and if it warrants engineer time. It basically effects any single-attackers with wounded targeting, which is pretty much just Dworkin Glavonak by default, though you could do it to any single-attacker using the rebound dagger like you did with GotS.

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                      • #26
                        Thanks for clarifying! I personally enjoy the randomness, and while I understand that some people might it does seem like a pretty low priority feature

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post

                          Note that we've discussed the fact that the default multiplier amount for Taunt is a bit low, and we've considered possibly increasing it in the future to something like a 3x/5x multiplier for the 2 levels.
                          There are many enemy effects and gear items around now, all designed to lay waste to your treasured heroes during combat. The idea of having a big meat-shield to hide your weakly mages behind is normally considered key in any such game. As such, has there been any progress on a review of the taunt multipliers being used?

                          Taunt is currently pretty negligible due to the prevalence of targeting mechanics to bypass high health heroes typically in the front row. I think this is a shame as I like the strategic element to carefully designing a team so that your warriors / tanks / SoF(!) takes the blows first. Currently they are all too often easily bypassed.

                          In addition to the above, a suggestion on new gear items that would further boost the taunt multipliers.
                          Last edited by Coldbayne; 02-09-2017, 12:46 AM.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post

                            We could certainly update the code to break out and ignore the targeting if all enemies are equal on whatever metric we're looking at (which is how it should have been made in the first place, if we're being honest). But as with everything, it's a question of how big a problem this is and if it warrants engineer time.
                            This is a big problem in PG if we're trying to fight currently the most powerful squad -- 4x Sha Stalkers. Since there is no effective counter to stealth mechanic, the only way to beat this team is to build a squad around "fat" heroes in the front row (BMH, SoF, etc) so they can survive most of Stalkers' attacks and let back row kill them. But with Rebound Daggers equipped, Stalkers start to attack back row very often and the whole strategy goes to hell. If wounded targeting worked the way it meant to work in the beginning of the battle, there won't be such problem.
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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by gettypoppy View Post
                              It seems like there is still a lot of confusion about how targeting mechanics work, especially after the introduction of gear and a lot of recent heroes with targeting mechanics, like Hivernal. So I wanted to go ahead and make a reference for how this all works. Keep in mind that this is an oversimplification of the actual code.

                              By default, every hero is targeted by enemies based on their squad positioning using specific weighting values:

                              Large creatures - 300
                              Front row - 200
                              Back row uncovered (no ally in front) - 20
                              Back row covered (ally in front) - 1

                              Every hero in YOUR squad has a weighting given to every enemy in the opponents squad. So with all 5 heroes alive in both squads, there are 50 different weighting values being tracked to determine each heroes' chances of attacking each opponent hero. For example, A1 vs B1, A1 vs B2, B1 vs A1, B1 vs A2, etc.

                              If no heroes have any special targeting mechanics, then all 5 of YOUR heroes will all end up with the same weighting values for each enemy. In this case the total weighting would be 300 + (200 x 2) + (1 x 2) = 702. At this point none of the enemies meet the criteria currently for "back row uncovered" weighting because all 5 enemies are alive, and thus no one in the back row is currently "uncovered". All your heroes give the large creature a target weighting of 300, and thus a 300/702 chance (43%) of being targeted.... and they each give EACH front row hero a weighting of 200 and thus a 200/702 chance (28%) of being targeted... and they each give EACH back row hero a weighting of 1 and thus a 1/702 chance (0.014%) of being targeted. Then let's say one of the front row heroes dies, so there is now a new total weighting of 300 + 200 + 20 + 1 = 521, and the same logic applies to determine the targeting chance of EACH of your heroes to target each enemy.

                              Flank - Heroes with descriptions that say "More likely to attack the back row". For the specific hero who has this ability, it adds 25,000 to the target weighting for any enemy meeting the criteria of 'back row uncovered' OR 'back row covered'. So assuming all heroes are alive, the total weighting for a flanker is now 300 + (200 x 2) + (25,001 x 2) = 50,702, and thus the chance to attack EACH back row hero is now 25,001/50,702, but since there are 2 back row heroes then the chance to attack ANY back row hero is 50,001/50,702 or roughly 99% chance. Flank uses a much higher weighting than all other targeting types, so in the case of a hero having multiple types of targeting working at the same time, Flank will still have a significantly higher chance of occurring.

                              edited

                              Note that we've discussed the fact that the default multiplier amount for Taunt is a bit low, and we've considered possibly increasing it in the future to something like a 3x/5x multiplier for the 2 levels.

                              That's pretty much everything to the targeting mechanics. Hopefully that helps answer any future questions!
                              A couple of questions:
                              What weighting effect does Chestplate of the fortress have to opponents who have 25k weighting bonus to flank - eg Sera 2*?
                              Does having 2 Chestplates make a difference?
                              What weighting bonus effect does Ghost of the Spirit apply regarding flanking - is it immunity or just a really large number?
                              What happened to the plan to improve default multiplier for Taunt?
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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Coldbayne View Post

                                A couple of questions:
                                What weighting effect does Chestplate of the fortress have to opponents who have 25k weighting bonus to flank - eg Sera 2*?
                                Does having 2 Chestplates make a difference?
                                What weighting bonus effect does Ghost of the Spirit apply regarding flanking - is it immunity or just a really large number?
                                What happened to the plan to improve default multiplier for Taunt?

                                The Chestplate of the fortress, as well as Ghost of the Spire, apply a large negative weighting to the flank weight. Multiple Chestplates will thus stack and reduce the flank weight even further, in the event there is a hero who flanks naturally and also has gear equipped to increase the chance to flank.

                                The value on GotS is significantly larger than on the Chestplate, enough to effectively counteract all chance to Flank.

                                We haven't made a decision on the multiplier improvement on Taunt yet...

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