Targeting - Explanation

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Targeting - Explanation

    It seems like there is still a lot of confusion about how targeting mechanics work, especially after the introduction of gear and a lot of recent heroes with targeting mechanics, like Hivernal. So I wanted to go ahead and make a reference for how this all works. Keep in mind that this is an oversimplification of the actual code.

    By default, every hero is targeted by enemies based on their squad positioning using specific weighting values:

    Large creatures - 300
    Front row - 200
    Back row uncovered (no ally in front) - 20
    Back row covered (ally in front) - 1

    Every hero in YOUR squad has a weighting given to every enemy in the opponents squad. So with all 5 heroes alive in both squads, there are 50 different weighting values being tracked to determine each heroes' chances of attacking each opponent hero. For example, A1 vs B1, A1 vs B2, B1 vs A1, B1 vs A2, etc.

    If no heroes have any special targeting mechanics, then all 5 of YOUR heroes will all end up with the same weighting values for each enemy. In this case the total weighting would be 300 + (200 x 2) + (1 x 2) = 702. At this point none of the enemies meet the criteria currently for "back row uncovered" weighting because all 5 enemies are alive, and thus no one in the back row is currently "uncovered". All your heroes give the large creature a target weighting of 300, and thus a 300/702 chance (43%) of being targeted.... and they each give EACH front row hero a weighting of 200 and thus a 200/702 chance (28%) of being targeted... and they each give EACH back row hero a weighting of 1 and thus a 1/702 chance (0.014%) of being targeted. Then let's say one of the front row heroes dies, so there is now a new total weighting of 300 + 200 + 20 + 1 = 521, and the same logic applies to determine the targeting chance of EACH of your heroes to target each enemy.

    Flank - Heroes with descriptions that say "More likely to attack the back row". For the specific hero who has this ability, it adds 25,000 to the target weighting for any enemy meeting the criteria of 'back row uncovered' OR 'back row covered'. So assuming all heroes are alive, the total weighting for a flanker is now 300 + (200 x 2) + (25,001 x 2) = 50,702, and thus the chance to attack EACH back row hero is now 25,001/50,702, but since there are 2 back row heroes then the chance to attack ANY back row hero is 50,001/50,702 or roughly 99% chance. Flank uses a much higher weighting than all other targeting types, so in the case of a hero having multiple types of targeting working at the same time, Flank will still have a significantly higher chance of occurring.

    Other Targeting - There are various other types of targeting. Brave Targeting ("More likely to attack the highest Power enemy"), Wounded Targeting ("More likely to attack the enemy with the lowest percentage health remaining"), and Slow/Quick Targeting. If an enemy meets the criteria for that type of targeting, then the weighting on that specific enemy is increased by a set amount for the hero who has that type of targeting... the exact amount varies but it's generally between 2,000 - 5,000. Brave Targeting, for example, adds a weighting of 5,000. So if hero A has Brave Targeting, and enemy B is a front row enemy who has the highest Power stat in the enemy squad, then hero A's target weighting on enemy B is increased from 200 to 5,200.

    Multiple Targeting Mechanics - A hero can have multiple targeting mechanics all working at once, via their native ability, gear, targeting runes, or an aura given to them by an ally. In this case it simply updates the target weighting of each enemy meeting the targeting criteria, which effects the final chances. No targeting mechanics "override" other targeting mechanics, they all just change the weighting for any hero who has the targeting vs any enemy who meets the criteria for that targeting.

    Taunt/Elusive - These are multipliers of the final target weighting values. Taunt is a multiplier of 1.5 or 2 ("More likely to be attacked" vs "Much more likely to be attacked..."), which means that the final weighting is multiplied by 1.5 or 2, further increasing the chances of that hero being targeted. Elusive is a multiplier of 0.2 or 0.1 ("Less likely to be attacked" vs "Much less likely to be attacked..."), which means that the final weighting is multiplied by 0.2 or 0.1, decreasing the chances of that hero being targeted. So for example a large creature with taunt goes from the standard target weighting of 300 to either 450 or 600 (depends on the level of taunt), while a front row hero who is elusive goes from a standard target weighting of 200 to either 40 or 20 (depends on the level of elusive). But let's say that we put that front row hero with elusive (0.1) in the back row (covered) and have him fight against a flanker. The flanker would target that back row elusive hero with a weighting of (25,001 x 0.1) = 2500. On the other hand let's say there is a front row hero with taunt (2x)... they would get targeted by that same flanker with a weighting of (200 x 2) = 400... in this case the flanking is irrelevant against the front row hero.

    Note that we've discussed the fact that the default multiplier amount for Taunt is a bit low, and we've considered possibly increasing it in the future to something like a 3x/5x multiplier for the 2 levels.

    That's pretty much everything to the targeting mechanics. Hopefully that helps answer any future questions!
    Last edited by gettypoppy; 12-05-2016, 12:46 PM.

  • #2
    Thanks @gettypoppy

    One question though:
    What does that mean for row and column attackers?

    Are the values for front row hero A and front row hero B just added together? And what does taunt and elusive do in that case?
    IGN: Heisenberg
    Ally Code: 527-445-787
    Collector, Tierer and Leveler of all HODA

    Guild: Top F2P

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by _Heisenberg_ View Post
      Thanks @gettypoppy

      One question though:
      What does that mean for row and column attackers?

      Are the values for front row hero A and front row hero B just added together? And what does taunt and elusive do in that case?
      Every hero technically targets just one enemy, even row, column, and all attackers. So the math is identical for them... they just happen to also attack any other enemies who are within the range of the specific hero that they target.

      Comment


      • #4
        cool, this is how things should be explained

        IGN: I DW I Juan Pablo - Rank: Hunter- Ally: 283-316-113 - Guild Hall: Click Here

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the explanation!


          F2P
          Ally code: 526-213-456
          370 Unique Legendaries!
          Welcome, Asha'Bellanar!
          Catalog completed 12/18/17

          Comment


          • #6
            Amazing explaination GP!

            So many strategic impacts I can now plan around. Eg having elusive toons in the front row is much more important than in the back as it's much more likely that a column attacker will target a front row toon, even when one back row toon is uncovered. And that's just the tip of the iceberg!

            Nugs are love. Nugs are life.
            Ally code: 587-227-572

            Comment


            • #7
              Funny story from the times of the first taunters/evaders: I used to put Crow Zevran behind Kolgrim because I thought his evade would cancel Kolgrim's taunt. I soon (ok, maybe not so soon) learned that it didn't work like that, but it seemed a good idea at that moment! XD
              IGN: dogwelder79

              Nugging helps new and weak players.

              Comment


              • #8
                Nice explanation, thanks.

                I love the idea of increasing the multiplier for taunt abilities.
                Also, gettypoppy using your example as basis, can you tell the difference on the numbers caused by targeting gears? pretty please?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by CoolNameHere View Post
                  Nice explanation, thanks.

                  I love the idea of increasing the multiplier for taunt abilities.
                  Also, gettypoppy using your example as basis, can you tell the difference on the numbers caused by targeting gears? pretty please?
                  Maul of the Dragon (target large creatures) is weight 2,000. The Ancestor's Greaves (flank) is standard flank weighting 25,000. Skywatcher's Cleaver (brave targeting) is weight 5,000.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thanks again

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thank you for this! I can finally figure out how I want to leverage taunts and elusiveness. I have a few questions:

                      What is Marshall Proulx's multiplier for "Allies have more chance to attack back row?" From what I tested, it seems like it is very effective. I would just like to get an exact answer for number crunching.

                      Also, what is the multiplier for gear targeting? Is it the same as taunt and elusiveness for heroes?

                      If I have a much more likely to be attacked LC, and FRx2, and much less likely to be attacked BRx2 against flankers, then my chances of the flankers hitting the front row or LC is:

                      LC: 300*x2=600
                      BR:25000*.1(2500) FR: 200*2=400
                      BR:25000*.1(2500) FR: 200*2=400

                      BR= 5000/6400 which is now a 78% chance of the BR being attacked instead of 99%
                      FR & LC=1400/6400 which is now 22% chance of being attacked instead of 1%

                      I would love to see the Taunt to change these odds. A x5 multiplier would change the percentages to:

                      LC: 300*5=1500
                      BR:25000*.1(2500) FR:200*5=1000
                      BR:25000*.1(2500) FR:200*5=1000

                      BR= 5000/8500= 59%
                      FR & LC= 3500/8500= 41% -This would make me feel like I can actually do something against flankers. As of right now, the best I can hope for is a 22% chance the flankers don't attack the BR.

                      Last edited by edulin123; 12-05-2016, 03:08 PM.
                      Ally Code: 113-658-253

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That was....elaborate. Thanks for the details.
                        It's only a game..........right?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks a lot for this info GP! definitely allows better understanding of strategy.

                          So essentially if I use 2 elusive front row toons I almost ensure that my LC will be attacked by all non flankers, regardless of the LC taunt - 300/(300+20*2+1*2)=93% for regular LC or 600/622=96% for max taunt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by edulin123 View Post
                            What is Marshall Proulx's multiplier for "Allies have more chance to attack back row?" From what I tested, it seems like it is very effective. I would just like to get an exact answer for number crunching.
                            It's not a multiplier, it's just a weighting increase. The same increase as any standard flank ability (+25,000 weighting), except it's given to all of MP's allies.

                            Originally posted by edulin123 View Post
                            Also, what is the multiplier for gear targeting? Is it the same as taunt and elusiveness for heroes?
                            Same here, it's not a multiplier. It depends on the gear, but I mentioned above the 3 specific pieces of gear that have targeting auras and what the amount is.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              avoided reading because math and logic
                              Ally Code - 813-748-113

                              Excel sheet of legs
                              https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

                              Comment

                              Announcement

                              Collapse

                              Forum Rules and Disciplinary Actions

                              These rules set boundaries to ensure that the EA Capital Games games and forums continue to be a friendly place where members can learn and share information on a variety of computing and non-computing topics. Heroes of Dragon Age and its forums are available to players 13 and older, refrain from excessive cursing/swearing. For more information, please see this link.

                              By accessing the EA Capital Games applications, users agree to accept that game administrators and moderators may remove any content submitted by a player as defined below. Users agree to EA Terms of Service as well. Misrepresenting oneself to engage in illegal activity will be immediately reported to EA for legal action.

                              Even though these are forums to allow free expression of ideas, there are other (real) people involved and one should respect their opinions and questions as ORIGINALLY POSTED IN THE TOPIC HEADINGS. Moderators are here to uphold and enforce the Terms of Service. Freedom to express your ideas, concerns, suggestions, and feedback, does not allow you the freedom of saying anything you want when you agree to the Terms of Service.

                              Unless otherwise stated, courses of action will be as follows:

                              1. First Offense - Warning
                              2. Second Offense - 3 day ban
                              3. Third Offense - 1 week ban
                              4. Fourth Offense - Permanent ban


                              If you have received a Permanent ban, this will extend to all future accounts created. If you are discovered to create a new account, it will also be banned.


                              What is not permitted in the discussion forum:

                              Advertising
                              Advertising or soliciting other members to buy, sell, or peruse any products or services including other applications or accounts, along with chain letters and junk mail.

                              Topics/posts that contain this will be both edited and closed or deleted, and an immediate 3-day ban will be issued without warning.


                              Hatred
                              Racism, bigotry, misogyny, hate speech, discrimination against any race, sexual preference, gender, or religion will not be tolerated.

                              All topics/posts will be deleted. Death threats, even joking, will be deleted and an immediate 3-day ban will be issued without warning, with further review from the Sr Moderator.


                              Flaming
                              Flaming includes material that is knowingly defamatory, illegal, abusive, threatening or harassing.

                              As with anything, you, as a member, should use good common sense when posting. In other words, you agree not to be a jerk. Posts containing personal attacks on another user will be edited/deleted at the moderators’ will.

                              Flaming or bashing of EA/CG, the devs, or the mods is not allowed. All posts/threads will be deleted.


                              Right to Privacy
                              You will not violate a person's privacy by publishing against another members will, information that is private and personal. Nor will you post private communication between EA Capital Games Support, other forum members, moderators, community managers, administrators, EA Capital Games employees, or partners of EA Capital Games on these forums or anywhere else.

                              Unless expressly endorsed by EA Capital Games, publicizing any correspondence of a private nature such as support tickets, email, Private Messages (PM) or chat logs thereof by any medium is NOT permitted.

                              Discussing or posting of another players spending habits will be deleted.


                              Spamming
                              Obvious spam (repetitive nonsense posts) will result in the poster permanently banned and all posts deleted.


                              Porn
                              Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene is not permitted on these forums.

                              Topics/posts containing such will be deleted on sight. Forum poster will be permanently banned from the forums.


                              Warez
                              Providing or asking for information regarding the illegal downloading of "warez", "gamez" or any other software protected by copyright.


                              Future Events/Promotions
                              Any posts or threads revealing future events or promotions that were not disclosed by the Capital Games team will be deleted.


                              Cross-posting
                              Posting the same question in more than one forum is not allowed. Should this occur, then only the thread in the most relevant forum will be left open; all others will be locked/closed and subsequently deleted.


                              Cheating
                              The use of any exploits or known bugs or editing of files in order to gain an unfair advantage while playing, will result in a permanent game and forum ban.

                              Accusing another player of cheating will result in your post/thread being deleted and a message sent to you, stating to refrain from further accusations. If continued accusations occur, a forum ban will result. If you believe a player to be cheating, send a PM to the Community Manager with as much detail as possible.

                              Please privately contact the Community Manager in order to submit an inquiry regarding this behavior.


                              Off-Topic Posting
                              Taking over a thread by posting excessively off-topic is not allowed. Off-Topic posts and any responses will be moved to their own, new thread if possible, or else deleted.


                              Political Posting
                              Because political beliefs, like religion, are a personal and sensitive topic, avoid posting about politics on the forums.


                              Customer Support Inquiries
                              All inquiries regarding Customer Support should be routed through the online web portal for support. The Community Manager and Moderators are unable to assist with inquiries regarding support tickets. Posting your ticket number and requesting assistance on the forums will result in the post being deleted. Sending a Private Message to the Community Manager or Moderators about CSR Inquiries is not to be tolerated, and will be ignored.

                              Additionally, all interactions with Customer Support are considered confidential, and all issues are handled on a case-by-case basis. As such, posts containing transcripts or results of your interactions with Customer Support will be edited or deleted.


                              Violation of these terms is grounds for removal from EA Capital Games games and a report to Facebook.


                              What should I do if I see objectionable material on the forums?
                              It is important that members recognize the real-time nature of this forum: the moderators cannot always monitor the contents of posted messages, and as such depend upon you to inform them when participants or their messages are violating our policy as stated here. You must also recognize that they cannot respond immediately to such notices and that some time may pass before any warranted action is taken.

                              To contact a moderator, please use the Flag Post function on the post represented by a flag:


                              What happens if I break the rules?
                              At best, your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will be issued a warning. If the offense is more serious your post will be deleted. Posting "why was my post edited/deleted?" etc. will only make matters worse, so please don't. If a moderator has not sent you a message stating why, please send the Sr Moderator a message asking for a reason.

                              Should you have already been issued warnings and continue to break the rules, you will be issued an infraction - your posting privileges will be disabled for three days, but you will still be able to view the forums as a guest.

                              For persistent and deliberate rule-breakers your account will be "Banned". That means you are no longer welcome on these forums and/or games and your account will no longer function in them. If you re-register, your new account will be banned as well.

                              Posting Suggestions
                              In the attempt to create a compromise where everyone is happy, the following suggestions are also recommended:

                              1. Be civil and courteous. This forum is visited by people from all over the world, of different ages, genders, religions, and backgrounds, and are each entitled to their own opinion.
                              Also, see Flaming, Right to Privacy, and Hatred.

                              2. Make sure that your message topics fit the topic description of the forum in which you are posting. This is for your own benefit - for example, a question regarding a bug or problem should be posted in the Feedback section.

                              3. Use the search function before posting, particularly if the question is problem oriented. Most technical questions have been answered before, and solutions are freely available.

                              4. Make sure that you have followed #3 before posting

                              5. Read the sticky threads at the top of each forum - they are there for a reason, and generally contain information relevant to the forum.

                              6. Don't quote the entire message that you're responding to, only the pertinent passage. This makes it easier to read for other users.

                              7. If you find it easier to express yourself en français, auf Deutsch, en español, in Nederlands, in Italiano, or any other language, post in the International Discussion forum. Hopefully someone who speaks the same language as you will be able to assist you. All posts in other sections (non-International) of the forums must be in English, so please make use of Google Translate if you need assistance with translation. Posting in English will allow the widest range of people to assist you.

                              In addition to the Forum Rules, you are bound to the general EA Terms of Service both on these forums and in the game. Links to the TOS are as follows:

                              EA TOS English
                              EA TOS French
                              EA TOS German
                              EA TOS Russian
                              EA TOS Spanish
                              See more
                              See less
                              Working...
                              X