Optimizing Gem usage on the PvP ladder.

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  • Optimizing Gem usage on the PvP ladder.

    In the following thread, Manuel Welder mentioned optimizing gem usage on the PvP ladder especially for F2P players

    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...anking-rewards

    Here are some tips:
    1. Never let your stamina reach 6.
    Every second at 6 is a second you aren't regenerating. If you're trying to collect as much as possible, set a timer for 1.5 hours and use your energy. You'll generally be playing for 5 bars, and will always be regenerating.

    2. Going for rankings, but efficiently
    If you want to get to ranking reward, you'll probably have to use gems. I imagine many people will burn 6 bars, spend 3 gems and burn 6 bars etc.

    A cheaper way to do this is :
    1. Burn 6 bars
    2. Set a timer for 16, 17, 18 minutes or however long it is until your next bar regenerates. You can check this by tapping the stamina bar at the top of the screen. It takes 21 minutes to regenerate 1 bar.

    Depending on your device, you may be able to find the battle you want before you go away for the 15 odd minutes. Or you may have to come in about 60s early, find the fight you want, and press "Fight" the instant your stamina bar regenerates. Then, find the next fight as fast as possible, reload and press fight. If you're good, you'll only have wasted 30s where your stamina isn't regenerating.

    Assuming 6 mins/6 fights and compared to burn, reload, repeat for an hour, this will get you just under 3 "free" fights.

    3. Pushing hard, but not wanting to waste a gem
    You're going for top 500 and above, and burning refill after refill of gems. Set yourself a floor.
    e.g. a) You found 6 fights really fast in under 4 minutes, so just refill and repeat
    b) It took you a bit longer and the 6 fights took 7 minutes. Maybe do 2) above, wait 14 minutes, repeat, and get a "free" fight

    I find that 3 mins/6 fights is good. 6 mins/6 fights is too slow and I'll wait all else being equal.

    4. Go for 270 gold fights.
    When using gems efficiently, every fight must get you as many banners as allowed, so never fight anything less than 270 gold or 110 exp (these correspond to the max banner fight at your level)

    5. Don't ever, ever, (ever) lose.
    P.S. Don't lose!
    Not only do you waste a fight, but you go backwards through banner loss.

    Tips for not losing
    a) Assume the worst
    Assuming everything went right for your opponent. If they could win, don't fight the fight. Of course most battles have a chance of loss, but you have to find what level of risk you want. As an F2P, you trade time for money, so you probably don't want to fight anything that you won't win 19 times out of 20.

    b) Go to Gambers' Anonymous
    Sometimes the discipline of a) can get tiresome, and you just want to try a battle. Go for it if it's fun, but if you want to be efficient, don't ever lose, and this means don't ever gamble.

    c) Be Humble
    Sometimes you see a really low level team.
    e.g. A bunch of rares with an FEO at the back. "My leg fortified Byrons will smoke that team!" They probably will, but they just might kill everything but the FEO, and then the FEO goes before DF.

    Pride in your squad doesn't guarantee a win. Watch out for this and stick to a)


    Please add in other tips, especially around the psychology of efficient gem usage.
    "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
    Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

  • #2
    another tip is this :
    if you have more than 1 great team always have all of them in your 4 slots .
    sometimes you need to battle your opponent with another lineup and because you dont have that team in your slots you will lose time.
    if you dont go for top ranks place easy team (better to be Red tanks) so weaker players will have a chance to catch up.
    Leg Fort guide http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...Leg-Fort-Guide
    my ally code : 281-485-914
    Weekly Legs: LC Wisp , 2x Wisp
    DEF Slot Team : Riordan , SD , BW , KA , Noh
    Guild : Outlaw Legion

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sinajah View Post
      another tip is this :
      if you have more than 1 great team always have all of them in your 4 slots .
      sometimes you need to battle your opponent with another lineup and because you dont have that team in your slots you will lose time.
      if you dont go for top ranks place easy team (better to be Red tanks) so weaker players will have a chance to catch up.
      A single red tank like an Arishok used to be the best nice nug to put out so that people could use 4xFerelden Ash Warrier (a white stunning common toon) to get up to 1000 gold per fight.

      Now that XP is probably more valuable relative to gold, try putting out a super weak toon like an unleveled Stroud (dual faction for more chance of a faction hit and 10 gold, slow to make for a fast fight). This way in the ladder, another player can use a really weak single toon, beat yours and get the big XP rewards like 2300XP that are on the ladder. 2300XP to a beginning toon is a big bonus, and you'll have good karma flowing your way.

      Here's a more comprehensive thread:

      http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...e-HoDA-Peloton
      "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
      Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

      Comment


      • #4
        Actually, if you REALLY want to go efficiently about it, there is no point in nugging at all (except for some limited cases as explained below).

        Every person you're pushing further in the ladder is a person that is pushing you further down in the ranking, thus reducing your income or causing you to have to spend more gem (and therefore reducing your income anyway). Sure, having a nug team around to beat when you are on top 500 may be fine and all... until you realize everyone else is also feeding off your own nug, putting you several spots under what you could have been if you didn't nug.

        So, who could have an interest in nugging? If you are a stronger than average player, you definitely don't, since you'd beat most teams anyway so what's the point of feeding more weak ones when there's plenty you can beat anyway?
        One could think it'd be the case if you have a weak team to begin with... except it's not. While without nugs around you find yourself constantly shafted by the top 500 players and struggling to get past that benchmark, you must also realize that if YOU nug, you will have to pay extra gems to get ahead of all those noobs with weak teams that you fed on your way up. Sure, the loss is minor compared to what it would translate for a good player, but it's a loss nonetheless.
        In short, if the opponent can beat you even if you don't nug, nugging doesn't help you because he'd win regardless. If your opponent can beat you only if you nug, instead, you're just inflating their banner count and thus cutting into your own.

        The ONLY possible instance where nug could make sense is if you're EXCLUSIVELY after the banner rewards up to 3000 and thus you have a vested interest in inflating banner count in general. This also means that nugging is a decent choice in the rare 9000 events too. But you must remember that you're always relying on people imitating your choice instead of riding it without returning the favor. And you need to weight in the possibility of missing out on the next rank reward (which may cost you up to 10 gems).


        What about me, then? Well, I generally have no issues reaching 3000 banners and I don't like the idea of feeding resources to my opponents when this only means I'll end up battling stronger opponents which will cost me more gems etc. So yeah, if you wanna train your weaklings against me, you better pack a Danarius somewhere if you get what I mean^^

        Comment


        • #5
          There are many counterpoints to Zarator's post.

          http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...-What-It-Takes

          is the most recent huge discussion on the issue. See also:

          http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...e-HoDA-Peloton

          for thoughts on the social impact of nugging.
          "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
          Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

          Comment


          • #6
            Doesn't skipping reduce future max banner values fractionally over time? Usually, when I get into the top 250, I'll take any easy 234+ gold fights.
            HoDA Legends:
            T IV - KA (x2), Bark (x2), Isabella, Fiona, Vanders, Merrill, Jowan, GWO, NH, Byron, RLM, Archi (x2), HO, SN, AD, Morrigan, QotBM, Varric, WCD, RS, Tallis
            T III - KM
            T II - Flemeth, Arlathan Gen,
            TI - - Chasind Gen., Vanders (x2), Morrigan, QotBM, KCC, Ariane, Alpha Werewolf

            Comment


            • #7
              Upon entering the recent PVP, in the Event page, you can scroll down the achievements, this will guide you on many things that can help you maximize your experience in PVP. If you are not going for top Rankings but want a decent finish and want to use the ladder gems to the fullest, then the best way is to never refill when upon the 5-6 games frame you will not get back your gems spent. You can calculate the banners needed to the next gems reward in the achievements guide i just mentioned above.

              @Mam - thank you for the many tips you have shared to our co players, this is very generous tips and I really very appreciative of players that think unselfishly. Btw I invite you to join l NFS l - you are very very much welcome.
              "NO EXPECTATIONS, NO DISAPPOINTMENTS"



              http://hoda-nfsclan.freeforums.net/

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Belrian_Amell View Post
                Doesn't skipping reduce future max banner values fractionally over time? Usually, when I get into the top 250, I'll take any easy 234+ gold fights.
                Sorry. What do you mean by skipping? 270 gold is always the best, and always the same for every player at the same banner count. Sometimes higher up 261, 252 , or even 243 gold will still give max banners, albeit slightly less XP and gold.
                "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
                Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

                Comment


                • #9
                  Nexting/Skipping isn't the source of the eventual reduction. They are caused by preset 'Banner's Held' thresholds passed by the player when winning and gaining banners.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by l NFS l Xerkspking View Post
                    Upon entering the recent PVP, in the Event page, you can scroll down the achievements, this will guide you on many things that can help you maximize your experience in PVP. If you are not going for top Rankings but want a decent finish and want to use the ladder gems to the fullest, then the best way is to never refill when upon the 5-6 games frame you will not get back your gems spent. You can calculate the banners needed to the next gems reward in the achievements guide i just mentioned above.

                    @Mam - thank you for the many tips you have shared to our co players, this is very generous tips and I really very appreciative of players that think unselfishly. Btw I invite you to join l NFS l - you are very very much welcome.
                    Thanks for the invite. Does that mean my days of sleep are numbered?

                    Let's hash out what we want out of PvP, and that'll help with guilds. Have you voted?

                    http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...anking-rewards
                    "Dan and his BloodMage buddies loved the sport of hunting for the rare goaten eggs. With each new egg, they increased their efforts and enthusiasm. Then Dan found the goat who laid the eggs. Dan soon had all the eggs and went forth to resume the sport he loved. But, the village was empty as his buddies could no longer find eggs nor the sport they loved. Dan threw down his eggs and left, realizing that while he did indeed love the eggs, he loved the sport and his buddies more. When other goats returned, there was only Smaug who yawned and went back to sleep..." With a start, Dan awoke from his nightmare and vowed to run from GOATS!
                    Enter your Nexus drops and see your odds: http://bit.ly/HoDA_Nexus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MAM_HoDA View Post
                      A single red tank like an Arishok used to be the best nice nug to put out so that people could use 4xFerelden Ash Warrier (a white stunning common toon) to get up to 1000 gold per fight.

                      Now that XP is probably more valuable relative to gold, try putting out a super weak toon like an unleveled Stroud (dual faction for more chance of a faction hit and 10 gold, slow to make for a fast fight). This way in the ladder, another player can use a really weak single toon, beat yours and get the big XP rewards like 2300XP that are on the ladder. 2300XP to a beginning toon is a big bonus, and you'll have good karma flowing your way.

                      Here's a more comprehensive thread:

                      http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...e-HoDA-Peloton
                      with the coming gold nerf and xp increase soon red tank should be out there
                      Leg Fort guide http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...Leg-Fort-Guide
                      my ally code : 281-485-914
                      Weekly Legs: LC Wisp , 2x Wisp
                      DEF Slot Team : Riordan , SD , BW , KA , Noh
                      Guild : Outlaw Legion

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by MAM_HoDA View Post
                        There are many counterpoints to Zarator's post.

                        http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...-What-It-Takes

                        is the most recent huge discussion on the issue. See also:

                        http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...e-HoDA-Peloton

                        for thoughts on the social impact of nugging.
                        Sorry but I could not find any counterpoint other than a myriad variations of "it's nice to newcomers" and "3000 banners". As far as the 3000 banners thing goes, I already pointed it out in my thread. As far as the "it's nice to newcomers" thing goes, however, I could not care less. Do you have any idea of how many extra gems I had to spend to get LMT last event just because of these "newcomers"? Considering how much do these gems cost, I am not going to throw them away for the sake of "social impact", thank you.

                        EDIT: And for the record, the large majority of people who posted in "Rise of the HoDA Peloton" disagree with nugging for the same reasons I pointed out. Strange world isn't it?
                        Last edited by Zarator; 11-25-2014, 02:13 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MAM_HoDA View Post
                          Thanks for the invite. Does that mean my days of sleep are numbered?

                          Let's hash out what we want out of PvP, and that'll help with guilds. Have you voted?

                          http://forums.capitalgames.com/showt...anking-rewards
                          I voted 3 - 1,6,8. Hopefully it will help guilds but as of now they keep on postponing the guild/clan plans. This makes me so sad + cutting some of our playing time.
                          "NO EXPECTATIONS, NO DISAPPOINTMENTS"



                          http://hoda-nfsclan.freeforums.net/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Zarator View Post
                            Sorry but I could not find any counterpoint other than a myriad variations of "it's nice to newcomers" and "3000 banners".
                            There were claims that people use it cooperatively to create a break away margin at high ranks. Claims that people used this exact same method to gain much needed units at costs they couldn't have otherwise, because they were missing the elements of an OP Top X team. Claims people use it to search for higher reward fights through the battlelog (what was once called fishing). Even some of the players negatively affected by high rank Nugging admitting to using and condoning some of the tactics under certain conditions.

                            Originally posted by Zarator View Post
                            Do you have any idea of how many extra gems I had to spend to get LMT last event just because of these "newcomers"? Considering how much do these gems cost, I am not going to throw them away for the sake of "social impact", thank you.
                            So... I suppose you have empirical evidence to suggest it was Nuggers or "newcomers" that caused an inflation in your expected cost, and not just the nature of a competition with more competitors than there are prizes of real value? Cause otherwise you're using fallacious reasoning:

                            https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

                            You infer that if Nugging or newcomers were not in the competition that cost would causally diminish. You also infer that it somehow isn't right for newcomers to spend a large amount of time and gems (possibly cash) to compete without also having to spend hundreds of dollars on GCPs or PVE hoping for one of the relatively few "Top X" strength team units, which is highly dependent on RNG. You also infer that your costs are somehow more important than theirs, despite having no knowledge of how much they've spent, or how much they are willing to in the future.

                            So far very few instances, and most of those in the top ten, have actually provided sound reasoning and evidence as to how Nugging directly impacted them and inflated their costs. And the interpretations of the evidence that was discussed were fairly mixed.

                            Originally posted by Zarator View Post
                            EDIT: And for the record, the large majority of people who posted in "Rise of the HoDA Peloton" disagree with nugging for the same reasons I pointed out. Strange world isn't it?
                            Did we read the same thread? While a majority of posts made during the thread did disagree with Nugging, you claim that a "large majority" of people/posters disagreed, that is the individual members posting, and no, it was basically even in agreement/disagreement with a neutral voice in the mix. And the other thread linked was probably further toward "Pro Nuggers" side in terms of ratio of individual participants.

                            Beside which, presuming that a claim is right because of its popularity is the Bandwagon fallacy:

                            https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

                            Nugging isn't right or wrong, reasonable or unreasonable, based on its popularity, or lack there of.
                            Last edited by The_Dude ★; 11-25-2014, 04:03 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              First of all, lol @ throwing fallacy links at me. Spare me this naivity please.

                              As far as cooperative nugging at high echelons goes, I think JSA did a good job in a thread on the Battlefield subforum to show why it is not even that beneficial for nuggers themselves. Basically, the point is that you're helping not just yourself but also everyone around you. And at those heights, it is not infrequent to meet the same person (nugger) multiple times. If you're stronger than the non-nugger, nugging makes no sense because you'd get more by putting the strong defense team he can't beat. If you're weaker, he's gonna outperform you anyway because of less nexting.

                              Empirical evidence about newcomers? Lol, I guess the results of the "Go for Gold" event is not enough for you? Basically, everytime the event allows for weaker people to compete on equal foot with others, the banner count inflates drastically. Just compare the banner count of "Go for Gold" with the one of "Battle Royale" (no event bonuses) and you'll see what I mean. Nugging does the same on a smaller scale - it allows weaker people to compete, and thus inflates banner counts. The more nugging around, the more weaker ppl will win thus causing you to require higher banners to hit the next tier of rewards.

                              The most fun line of yours however definitely is:

                              You also infer that your costs are somehow more important than theirs, despite having no knowledge of how much they've spent, or how much they are willing to in the future.
                              OF COURSE my costs are more important. They are MINE. I can't even understand why you'd bring this up^^ Do you think we're running a cooperative or charity institution here? The entire point of this game for me is for me to win and for everyone else to lose. And for everyone else is the same thing - or at least this is what the game conveys. How can you expect me to show any slight of charity when gems cost REAL MONEY to get?

                              Finally, I never claimed people are are right because of popularity, The Dude. That is just your stunt for fallacies (as shown by your signature) that causes you to naively search for fallacies everywhere. I was just laughing at the fact that MAM_HoDA linked me a thread where there supposedly were a lot of good reasons to nug and instead I found a bunch of people saying exactly the same things I am saying against nugging in general.



                              Anyway, you know what? Go nug. Have fun. I'll just level on you guys with my lowbies and eat your main teams with my Witherfang defense squad :-)

                              Comment

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