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  • #31
    Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post
    So one of the biggest things that we are going to be able to do going forward with the new mechanics is to release things that have a much higher % of DR available to them. Items like the Chestplate of the Fortress, recently released that provides 50% DR, are a prime example of the kinds of things we were very scared and hesitant to release before, because of how easily reaching 100% DR could be.

    Please keep in mind it was never intended for DR to be able to go to 100%, and that is why we have had to scale back the amount of DR being released into the game.

    As we go forward, we will be making adjustments to values of DR on some heroes, and will be able to release more gear that provides higher DR than the measly 2-10% we've been doing so far.

    As far as compensation is concerned - there will be no compensation for this. An announcement was made weeks ago that a change to this mechanic was coming. Additionally, this has essentially been a broken mechanic to this point, and creation of 100% DR squads is considered an exploit of the broken mechanic. You (the general you) have been able, to this point, to use this exploit to be able to defeat squads that these heroes were never intended or designed to be able to defeat, and as such you have able to gain rewards based on this broken mechanic.

    I would like to stress that this change was not targeted at fixing Sera. We have a long list of reasons for why this change was needed, the two most prevalent being:

    1) It was broken and never intended to be able to create 100% DR squads
    2) We have been hogtied about being able to release anything with significant DR

    We will not be discussing all of the other reasons for this, as that is private and company confidential information, however, the two reasons listed above are the primary driving force behind this.
    If 100% DR squads were never intended to exist, my question is: why on Earth didn't CG say so from the beginning??? Some of us warned about this more or less a year ago, we warned that immunities existed and they were becoming more and more abundant, and instead of answering "you're right, immunity is not intended, we are working to correct this", the answer was "there's no problem, just use another team on defense". That's not the answer given when something is not intended, that's the answer given when you are irritated because not everybody swallows what is fed to them.

    Also, if immunity was not intended, why were Fairbanks, Ritts and Hivernal created? What was supposed to be their role on squads, if not providing immunity to damage?

    Please, just tell the truth. There are two possibilities that sound more probable than "it was never intended": they didn't want to admit they were wrong when we pointed this out, or they changed their mind and they don't like immunities anymore. But "it was never intended" is simply not true and an insult to those of us who tried to warn you a year ago.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by KilluaX90 View Post

      No kidding. According to his calculations, 4 Ritts should give 59% DR. On the other hand, 4 Stroud Shields should give 9.6% DR, not 9.96%
      Sure, it was 6 am when I made this comment. Insomnia
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      • #33
        Originally posted by Manuel Welder View Post
        If 100% DR squads were never intended to exist, my question is: why on Earth didn't CG say so from the beginning???
        Brogan Dace and Ritts are actually the perfect examples of this. When she was originally designed, she was intended to have 20% DR. When the community raised concerns just prior to her release (from looking ahead via Crystal Ball) and how easily 100% DR could be achieved with her, we immediately dropped her to 15% just hours before the official release, because 100% DR was not intended.

        Not long after, people were starting to find combinations to reach 100% DR, at which point we started monitoring to see the prevalence of it. Soon we found ourselves in a situation where releasing anything with DR had to be checked for the ease of creating 100% DR squads.

        With Brogan, particularly when Jerrik was released, we said Oops and altered DR to put the cap in place specifically to prevent 100% DR, stating at the time we did not intend for there to be 100% DR teams.

        With targeted DR coming into play, we monitored that to see whether 100% was going to be a problem - thus the reduction of Ritts to 15%.

        The more things we released, the easier it became to get 100% DR squads, the more we started investigating a mechanic change.

        With Stealth being a counter, we felt we had a bit of time to deal with it. Unfortunately, the release of the scales catapulted the need to correct both mechanics.

        We have consistently stated that it was not intended for Stealth to bypass DR. We also said we were choosing at the time to not change this but were monitoring.

        Our actions regarding the Dace brothers and Ritts were a statement that 100% DR was not intended.

        This is the truth.

        We never liked the damage immunities. It took a while for us to come up with a balanced, proper solution. And then we had to find the time and resources to implement it.

        And in fact, we did say that the immunities weren't intended and we were working to correct it, in the announcement we made several weeks ago, when we first informed that stealth and DR were being separated.

        If anything, the fault lies in the way it was communicated, as we did bring Sera into the message because that was the final straw, and the item that caused the community to uproar. However, the fact remains that we have been monitoring the situation long before stealthy Sera happened, and we had already been working towards a mechanic change before the scales were released.

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        • #34
          Well. Another consequence of this change emerges:

          I have just finished 1008 in Proving Grounds, doing my darndest with my warden squad now that all my DR squads have been completely sidelined. I used to be able to get between 400-800. Every loss was like a dagger to my heart, knowing that if even half the T4 Leg and Mythic forts that were in my now useless DR squads was in my warden squad, I would have easily kept up.

          I say again, this change was simply not fair. There was nothing in the game itself that would have led us to believe that the teams we were making was 'exploiting' - it was completely within the rules of the game, and it appeared the rules were even balanced around it. It was, for example, the case that it was all but impossible to actually get 100% in pretty much any situation, so you would assume as a player that it was designed that way.

          So now CG has killed all my best teams. I now know I can no longer complete in PG, having been able to compete in PG before.

          I do not understand how CG cannot understand that they have just pulled the rug under some of their most loyal players. While I doubt they will ever make such a massive revision to the rules again, that is zero comfort to me as I stare at a roster full of wasted forts and useless toons.

          And as to why you would mythic fort them: high DR toons typically do not do great damage, so you need them to do as much damage as possible to avoid stalemates. Additionally, you used to get the odd stealth toon getting through, so you would need them to have high health as well in the hope they would survive until the stealther was dead. Incidentally, their general weakness apart from the damage resist means that once you remove the damage resist, these toons are worse than bad.

          I know sitting here, dejected with my phone on the 'defeat' screen beside me, is probably the wrong time to write this post, but I do not believe CG fully understands how some players have been affected by this. I hadn't believed I would quit the game over it, but in some ways this is getting to be the last straw. It would be many weeks before I can fort up another meta team to compete in PG, and it would be the most bitter, pointlessly unncessary grind.

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          • #35
            Ouch, that stings! I know how that feels, and believe me: I hadn't the best of nights in PG as well. Got some Ghosts - and the reintroduction of DR doesn't amuse them either. At least Seras have been kept at bay last night, it may well be the terror is over. This brings me to this:

            Originally posted by Ultrascorch View Post
            I do not understand how CG cannot understand that they have just pulled the rug under some of their most loyal players. While I doubt they will ever make such a massive revision to the rules again, that is zero comfort to me as I stare at a roster full of wasted forts and useless toons.
            I dunno, I can't help but thinking that they are full well aware of the consequences of the fix/nerf. But what could be done in this regard? After all, we are talking about a game which, at its core, is about permanent evolution of toons, mechanics, and stats. The aforementioned Seras have greatly lost in value. A guildmate proudly reported that he was able to fish 2 Seras out of the WA nexus. Even built them, tiered them, forted them, levelled them. Maybe his efforts are wasted now, as spirits took the crown firmly last night.

            Last year, people spent huge amounts of dollars, actual dollars, on the FH flashpack to build 4xFH squads. I bet they have all the reason to look at a roster of wasted forts and useless toons.

            They moved on.

            One of your main points is the suddenness of this seismic shift, yes? Very good point at that. But the introduction of MD was over night as well. Many more examples come to mind.

            I'm well aware of the fact that these factual arguments do nothing to appeal to the emotional loss you are experiencing. It was bound to happen to such a niche setup sooner or later.

            I'll trust you to recover from the shock - constantly building new squads and levelling new toons is central part of the game after all. I hope this does not sound patronizing in any way - it is not intended to do so. I just think it would be a loss to the community if dedicated players threw in the towel after a more or less necessary setback.

            All the best luck to you, Ultrascorch!
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            • #36
              Really enjoyed the change in PG last night. Sera was certainly farmable. Spirits ruled. Nice overall group balance. Look forward to balance and many viable checks and counters. No more one squad to rule them all. Thanks Lyeshal and the rest of CG staff

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              • #37
                Originally posted by RINNEGAN TUCK UCHIHA View Post
                Really enjoyed the change in PG last night. Sera was certainly farmable. Spirits ruled. Nice overall group balance. Look forward to balance and many viable checks and counters. No more one squad to rule them all. Thanks Lyeshal and the rest of CG staff
                Same here: there was definitely a learning curve. but I was glad to see that my DR team (2x FB + Hiv) wasn't completely useless and was still an effective counter to many Sera teams as well as other quick rogues. I tried out a new team that was okay (FH, Ameridan, S.Champ + GWV), but I think I need to tweak it more before it's viable.

                Looking forward to seeing the team shifts in PG in the future!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Ultrascorch View Post
                  Well. Another consequence of this change emerges:

                  I have just finished 1008 in Proving Grounds, doing my darndest with my warden squad now that all my DR squads have been completely sidelined. I used to be able to get between 400-800. Every loss was like a dagger to my heart, knowing that if even half the T4 Leg and Mythic forts that were in my now useless DR squads was in my warden squad, I would have easily kept up.

                  I say again, this change was simply not fair. There was nothing in the game itself that would have led us to believe that the teams we were making was 'exploiting' - it was completely within the rules of the game, and it appeared the rules were even balanced around it. It was, for example, the case that it was all but impossible to actually get 100% in pretty much any situation, so you would assume as a player that it was designed that way.

                  So now CG has killed all my best teams. I now know I can no longer complete in PG, having been able to compete in PG before.

                  I do not understand how CG cannot understand that they have just pulled the rug under some of their most loyal players. While I doubt they will ever make such a massive revision to the rules again, that is zero comfort to me as I stare at a roster full of wasted forts and useless toons.

                  And as to why you would mythic fort them: high DR toons typically do not do great damage, so you need them to do as much damage as possible to avoid stalemates. Additionally, you used to get the odd stealth toon getting through, so you would need them to have high health as well in the hope they would survive until the stealther was dead. Incidentally, their general weakness apart from the damage resist means that once you remove the damage resist, these toons are worse than bad.

                  I know sitting here, dejected with my phone on the 'defeat' screen beside me, is probably the wrong time to write this post, but I do not believe CG fully understands how some players have been affected by this. I hadn't believed I would quit the game over it, but in some ways this is getting to be the last straw. It would be many weeks before I can fort up another meta team to compete in PG, and it would be the most bitter, pointlessly unncessary grind.

                  I understand you, I had the same problem when Sera's become so powerful and I am ending in a worse position at PG since then.
                  There are some game improvements, bug fixings or the releasing of new heroes that make you to change you PG squad and strategy completely and you need to find another team to compete and tier and fort them well, the game is evolving all the time.
                  I am sure you will find another great team to compete.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by RINNEGAN TUCK UCHIHA View Post
                    Really enjoyed the change in PG last night. Sera was certainly farmable. Spirits ruled. Nice overall group balance. Look forward to balance and many viable checks and counters. No more one squad to rule them all. Thanks Lyeshal and the rest of CG staff

                    Same here, got 92 on nats with my spirit squad, Seras were eradicated from defensive teams as the pg ending was close, people changed squads to put more balanced ones, the game felt more and more equilibrated, strategy really mattered, the mechanics are in fact a good change, PG is a matter of being a good strategist.
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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post
                      So one of the biggest things that we are going to be able to do going forward with the new mechanics is to release things that have a much higher % of DR available to them. Items like the Chestplate of the Fortress, recently released that provides 50% DR, are a prime example of the kinds of things we were very scared and hesitant to release before, because of how easily reaching 100% DR could be.
                      It's been 9 months, is still CG planning to release any significant DR gear - what sort of timescale?
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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Coldbayne View Post

                        It's been 9 months, is still CG planning to release any significant DR gear - what sort of timescale?
                        We do not disclose when things will be released.

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