DR changes devastating

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  • DR changes devastating

    Damage Resist used to be very powerful in large amounts, and essentially worthless in small amounts. I spent the last year building up a number of high DR squads for various purposes, with my most powerful being my 3x Ritts + Josephine squad, all mythic, full off a mix of mythic forts and T4 legs. Overnight, CG has made those squads no just 'a bit weaker', but essentially completely useless. I have been stung so hard by this change I don't even know what to say. From being able to win a lot of fights, I can now win almost literally nothing with them.

    This is probably the biggest change there has ever been in HoDA. It will make DR almost irrelevant to squad building, and you will see a lot fewer DR teams (I predict almost none). Even 75% DR might only help your squad survive one measly extra round against a power-gaining team, and with the new change, 75% is going to be nearly impossible to get even fully built for it. I have managed 99% DR on some toons, and I can tell you that against power gainers, 99%, which is hard to get, is still very beatable.

    DR needs a serious rebalancing to address the new rule. I propose:
    • Double (yes, double) all damage resistances. Since they no longer stack, there is currently almost no point to having two damage resist auras in a party, let alone four. If Ritts' 15% aura was doubled to 30%, 3x ritts would grant around 65% actual DR, and 4x would grant about 75% (100% * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7 * 0.7). That is against about 50% DR as it stands with 4x Ritts (100% * 0.85 * 0.85 * 0.85 * 0.85).
    • DR items are now pretty much worthless. They were only much good to top off very high DR, and now they do basically nothing - only resist 1% of the last 5% of the damage, for example, which isn't even worth equipping. I remember grinding Warden Wonderland for hours to try get a second Stroud's Targe - now all that effort and over 100 gems are wasted as Stroud's Targe is basically useless. There needs to be some complete rebalancing around how they work, possibly by saying DR from items counts as a single source (even that would be pretty weak).
    • Make specific DR always pair with bonus damage to the group in question. Since DR is now laughingly weak, we will need some other way to gain benefit from having, say, an 'anti-outlaw' squad. Fairbanks is a good model of this, for example, as he gives 35% DR and 35% bonus damage to outlaws. If we were also doing bonus damage alongside the (now weak) damage resistance, it would make logical sense ('this team has an advantage against outlaws') and balance sense.
    • Sera has to be nerfed. The stealth nerf was supposed to fix Sera, but CG has simply unwittingly buffed her instead. There used to be a counter to her - high DR, but since high DR is basically impossible under the new rule, whether or not she has stealth is basically irrelevant. Even a fully DR specced team won't have more than about 75% DR, and if your team is full DR you won't have other things like power gain that you'd need to take her on. People will likely stop even trying to build these squads. Sera will have free rein to just stomp everybody in proving grounds - the only response to Sera will now be 'next', not, as it was, switching to an anti-outlaw or anti-red team.
    • (What I prefer but would doubt will happen) Return DR to how it was, but introduce an anti-DR ability and aura as a new ability for new heroes that are balanced for it. Penetrates 25% enemy damage resistance would be an interesting and cool ability under the old way it worked.
    I really feel that those of us who have just had their top teams essentially invalidated overnight need at least some compensation. Our best teams haven't just been weakened, they have been invalidated completely. I suggest the following:
    • All mythic toons we posess that have DR should grant a free tome. There is no way in heck I would have used tomes on many of my toons if I had known they were going to be essentially wiped out of the game. This wasn't simply a natural evolution, but the total and sudden removal of the mechanic that made these toons make any kind of sense. I weep to think of the many tomes I wasted not just on the toons but on the mythic forts for them.
    • Make unforting free for 2 weeks or something, to allow us to transfer those mythic forts to actual useful toons. Like I say, Ritts is hardly better than a gold hero now that her DR aura can't be used to actually counter anything.
    • Grant a certain amount of gems based on DR toons, as I have wasted so many gems trying to get items and gear for these toons.
    Anyway, I am sure people have many opinions on this change. I think the biggest issue for me is that they did this to fix Sera, while at the same making DR no longer a valid counter to anything, let alone Sera. A LOT needs to be fixed about this for it to be right.

  • #2
    Ultrascorch , my thoughts exactly. I couldn't have written it better.

    As you say 99% DR isn't enough against some of the powergain teams out there, you need 100%, so 75% will be effectively useless in most cases.

    CG must really love Sera, first the Scales and now this. Enough is enough!

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    • #3
      So one of the biggest things that we are going to be able to do going forward with the new mechanics is to release things that have a much higher % of DR available to them. Items like the Chestplate of the Fortress, recently released that provides 50% DR, are a prime example of the kinds of things we were very scared and hesitant to release before, because of how easily reaching 100% DR could be.

      Please keep in mind it was never intended for DR to be able to go to 100%, and that is why we have had to scale back the amount of DR being released into the game.

      As we go forward, we will be making adjustments to values of DR on some heroes, and will be able to release more gear that provides higher DR than the measly 2-10% we've been doing so far.

      As far as compensation is concerned - there will be no compensation for this. An announcement was made weeks ago that a change to this mechanic was coming. Additionally, this has essentially been a broken mechanic to this point, and creation of 100% DR squads is considered an exploit of the broken mechanic. You (the general you) have been able, to this point, to use this exploit to be able to defeat squads that these heroes were never intended or designed to be able to defeat, and as such you have able to gain rewards based on this broken mechanic.

      I would like to stress that this change was not targeted at fixing Sera. We have a long list of reasons for why this change was needed, the two most prevalent being:

      1) It was broken and never intended to be able to create 100% DR squads
      2) We have been hogtied about being able to release anything with significant DR

      We will not be discussing all of the other reasons for this, as that is private and company confidential information, however, the two reasons listed above are the primary driving force behind this.

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      • #4
        Also, if you continue to discuss Sera as a part of this conversation, I will close the thread. This is your warning on that front. This change was not about Sera.

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        • #5
          The game balance is way better now, Sera has been countered, thats a fact,use the right squads

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          • #6
            To the OP, I have a few teams set up to achieve 100% DR against specific groups, and that is now out the window so I can see where you are coming from. This issues has been talked about for a long time, and it's always been known that it was not working the way it was intended. This did cause some problems, but yes, the lurker scales created a specific scenario which highlighted the issue to a degree nobody ever expected. This fix doesn't completely ruin DR teams, but at the same time it doesn't completely ruin stealth teams. I really think this is a hugely positive change, and now that it's live I think most people will be pleasantly surprised to see it in action. Yes, this invalidates one cheese strategy, but it opens up other options to come. I think there's a pretty solid chance some of the older DR units may get a refresh to work better under the new mechanic, and I think this will make our community designed antiquarian even more useful.
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            • #7
              I have to say, it's a bit early for me to say for sure about all the impacts of the changes, but I see it as quite positive so far. If for no other reason then we are building and testing teams in my guild I haven't seen in a long time in PG. Yes, 100% DR teams are gone, I had built several too, but I also would offer there are many more ways to handle PG now, and building is a lot of fun to watch in our guild chat .
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              • #8
                Originally posted by Brian Tessier View Post
                Yes, this invalidates one cheese strategy, but it opens up other options to come.
                Well, to be fair, the 100% DR cheese strategy takes a lot of effort to build.

                I am F2P since the beginning, and the Brogan Dace DR set-up or the x3 Sister Nightingale set-up carried me for a very long time, even against the meta-Hawke teams. As a long time F2P, we have no choice but to compete this way. I guess there is a deep sense of loss among us F2Ps now that the DR option is off the table. Most of us just don't have the resources (e.g. SOF, MD) to take on Hawke or meta-outlaw teams without the DR strategy. Well, I try to keep an open mind just like when cursers ended my Uldred/VA cross set-ups, but my preliminary thoughts are that there are far more pressing things CG should be looking into.

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                • #9
                  Let's also be clear - whether I dropped money on a new hero was significantly dependent on whether it had DR that was compatible with one of my groups. I would not, for example, have bought Bethany Hawke in the last pack if I had known her DR was going to be made ineffective in literally the next patch.

                  Please understand, I am not saying I am against rebalancing. I am saying that the magnitude of this change, and how much it affects legitimate players like myself, cannot be understated. I have bought heroes, on what was my understanding of how those heroes worked, and then the game decided to change the mechanics and essentially turn what could be hundreds of dollars over months into hundreds of dollars of nothing. I don't agree that having announced 'upcoming changes' at some point on a forum counts as fair warning. Like most people, I play through the game, not the forums.

                  I am trying to think of some kind of equivalent to another mechanic. I genuinely can't. In the years I have played this game, I have never seen a mechanic become essentially invalid overnight like this. I mean, power drain used to be everything, then it was easily countered, but only little by little as power drain resist toons started coming out. Then it was power gain, until curse power appeared, but only little by little.

                  This is such a seismic shift - kind of like an earthquake it will upset a lot of people a bit, but some people will be utterly ruined, like myself. I now have a whole ton of Mythic toons I literally CAN NOT USE again. They will be eaten for breakfast in the proving grounds, zero help on the gauntlet, and not even functional on higher levels of normal nexus events. I am somewhat flabbergasted that CG has no sympathy for this, on the grounds that I was supposedly 'exploiting' by assembling these squads.

                  I have no illusions that I will be able to get any kind of resolution to this issue here, (or anywhere), but I feel almost in mourning as I watch so much work just evaporate in front of me. I have to process months and months of careful grinding squad building (and yes, spending real money) essentially dying in my hands, and thus have posted on the forum.

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                  • #10
                    Well said. I think one thing we can maybe change going forward is how game changes are communicated. The in game newsfeed would have been a great tool to get the message out about this rebalance ahead of time.
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                    • #11
                      I mostly agree with this. Dr teams were good counters and never meta. Now they are not even that. Something that wasn't unbalanced or broken is now.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by vitus View Post
                        I mostly agree with this. Dr teams were good counters and never meta. Now they are not even that. Something that wasn't unbalanced or broken is now.
                        I must disagree, the 100% DR was very much broken. When you go around looking for 4X VV teams because you have 2 Fairbainks, that's pretty broken. Also, when is the last time you came across a blighted team outside a heavily boosted event? Probably before the Hawkes came out since it was really easy to get to 100% DR against blighted. Sure those are pretty targeted, but to completely eliminate 2 entire factions from competitive play due to a mechanic that was never supposed to work like that, I'd say it's broken and unbalanced. This new method still gives value to DR teams, but still gives value to stealth teams. I'd call that pretty darn balanced.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Webbulus View Post
                          I think one thing we can maybe change going forward is how game changes are communicated. The in game newsfeed would have been a great tool to get the message out about this rebalance ahead of time.
                          I can't speak to how possible or not this might be, but this does seem a reasonable request to help solve issues like this, or at least give warning to those not in the forum.
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                          • #14
                            Nothing new, game balance changes, if not , we still use DF and 4x NH
                            People who build some VV teams got spanked when Fairbanks come out. Imo DR at 100% is just silly.
                            CG did the right thing , just took some extra time to do it =)
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Brian Tessier View Post

                              I must disagree, the 100% DR was very much broken. When you go around looking for 4X VV teams because you have 2 Fairbainks, that's pretty broken. Also, when is the last time you came across a blighted team outside a heavily boosted event? Probably before the Hawkes came out since it was really easy to get to 100% DR against blighted. Sure those are pretty targeted, but to completely eliminate 2 entire factions from competitive play due to a mechanic that was never supposed to work like that, I'd say it's broken and unbalanced. This new method still gives value to DR teams, but still gives value to stealth teams. I'd call that pretty darn balanced.
                              I think everything should have a counter, whether it's four vv or three sera or meta spirits. The counters themselves should have counters and both fb and ritts teams certainly did. It forced people to be creative in which teams to put out in defense. Now, congrats, you can just leave your four vv in there permanently.

                              And, no, blights won't be coming back after this change so you can blame their obsolescence on something else.
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