Slave statues.

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  • Slave statues.

    Should have golem at the very least, red lyrium and tevinter are optional. Granted they are not traditional golems such as dwarven, but neither is the varterral.
    Last edited by Uraeus; 03-03-2018, 05:05 AM.

  • #2
    They did once, when they were released. I'm not sure why it got removed. Definitely something doable. Along with the Gate Guardian.

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    • #3
      a propos golems, harvester orsino should get that tag as harvesters are flesh golems
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post
        They did once, when they were released. I'm not sure why it got removed. Definitely something doable. Along with the Gate Guardian.
        Gate Guardian is what made me think of my Juggernaut suggestion in the Tevinter thread.

        Yep, I believe the Harvester in GoA is described as a golem made of flesh. I'm actually surprised we don't have the original as a three star, since it's one of the hardest boss fights in DA without significant cross dlc preparation.
        Last edited by Uraeus; 03-12-2018, 04:42 PM.

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        • #5
          Gate Guardian and Slave statue should count as Golems, as well as Tevinter (their builders) and Free Marches (where they reside).

          And varterral can count as Golem if the definition is loosened up a bit. It should be considered a spirit, it's even called thusly by Lienne de Montsimmard. Even if not a fade spirit, it should count, like Lady of the Forest.

          Rock Wraith should be Spirit, not demon. I won't go over it again here, i do believe I've made a post about it before. And as it is made of stone, and quasi magic to some degree, and is in a sort of humanlike form it can count as a Golem as well. That goes for the Titan Heart Guardian too.
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          • #6
            at the risk of completely hijacking this thread, so many LCs erroneously have the creature tag which i wish they would lose. harvester O, the mother, broodmother, arguably GW Knight...
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Third_Monti View Post
              Gate Guardian and Slave statue should count as Golems, as well as Tevinter (their builders) and Free Marches (where they reside).

              And varterral can count as Golem if the definition is loosened up a bit. It should be considered a spirit, it's even called thusly by Lienne de Montsimmard. Even if not a fade spirit, it should count, like Lady of the Forest.

              Rock Wraith should be Spirit, not demon. I won't go over it again here, i do believe I've made a post about it before. And as it is made of stone, and quasi magic to some degree, and is in a sort of humanlike form it can count as a Golem as well. That goes for the Titan Heart Guardian too.
              Well the slave statues are loosely red lyrium also, but I don't care if they get the tag. I didn't think about rock wraith or titan heart, they certainly look like golems.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Third_Monti View Post
                Gate Guardian and Slave statue should count as Golems, as well as Tevinter (their builders) and Free Marches (where they reside).

                And varterral can count as Golem if the definition is loosened up a bit. It should be considered a spirit, it's even called thusly by Lienne de Montsimmard. Even if not a fade spirit, it should count, like Lady of the Forest.

                Rock Wraith should be Spirit, not demon. I won't go over it again here, i do believe I've made a post about it before. And as it is made of stone, and quasi magic to some degree, and is in a sort of humanlike form it can count as a Golem as well. That goes for the Titan Heart Guardian too.
                Gate Guaradian and Slave Statues are already a pretty thin stretch of the definition of golem, IMO. A golem is a living soul transferred to an inanimate object whereas those two are simply animated by the power of red lyrium. I'm not a lore guru so I wouldn't be upset if they were given the golem tag, but I don't think it's an obvious oversight that they don't have it.
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                • #9
                  The main consideration for what is and is not a Golem lies in the creator of the construct. Golems are beings created by inhabitants outside of the Fade out of some material, and then made to come alive through lyrium and/or magic. As such, the following forms of Golem can rightly be (eventually) updated:

                  - Varterral (already updated) - Tree Golem, created by Dirthamen through magic
                  - Caridin's Golems - Stone, Steel, etc, created by Dwarves through Lyrium
                  - Harvesters - Flesh Golem, created by Dwarves through Lyrium, also Orsino through Blood magic
                  - Slave Statues / Gate Guardians, created by Tevinter, animated by Meredith through Lyrium

                  What is NOT a golem, however, would be the Rock Wraiths/Profane. These are entirely different beings, that although they are living stone, they are not created by anyone and were not animated through the use of lyrium/magic. They simply... exist. Not much is really known of their origins, though dwarves believe them to be created by The Stone itself. There was no deliberate construction and animation of them. They are subject to inhabitation by spirits/demons, but are not necessarily so.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post
                    The main consideration for what is and is not a Golem lies in the creator of the construct. Golems are beings created by inhabitants outside of the Fade out of some material, and then made to come alive through lyrium and/or magic. As such, the following forms of Golem can rightly be (eventually) updated:

                    - Varterral (already updated) - Tree Golem, created by Dirthamen through magic
                    - Caridin's Golems - Stone, Steel, etc, created by Dwarves through Lyrium
                    - Harvesters - Flesh Golem, created by Dwarves through Lyrium, also Orsino through Blood magic
                    - Slave Statues / Gate Guardians, created by Tevinter, animated by Meredith through Lyrium

                    What is NOT a golem, however, would be the Rock Wraiths/Profane. These are entirely different beings, that although they are living stone, they are not created by anyone and were not animated through the use of lyrium/magic. They simply... exist. Not much is really known of their origins, though dwarves believe them to be created by The Stone itself. There was no deliberate construction and animation of them. They are subject to inhabitation by spirits/demons, but are not necessarily so.
                    The codex entry for Rock Wraith does mention that they're the spirits of dwarves so foul that the Stone rejected them. And the codex entry for Profane is like a poem of sorts, but it mentions them feasting on the gods, and the profane do feast on lyrium which is the blood of titans.

                    So, not golems, I retract that for these, but magical something or other is at play, and so is spirity-ness. They seem to be somewhat living spirits that can be inhabited by others.

                    But we don't know how non fade spirits interact with fade spirits. I bring up The Lady of the Forest again because she is not a spirit of the fade, but instead the spirit of the Brecilian Forest. We don't know if ahe could have been possessed, and we know that Rock Wraiths, once ancient and powerful can fight off being possessed, like the Ancient Rock Wraith from DA II.
                    Last edited by Third_Monti; 03-13-2018, 07:07 AM.
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                    • #11
                      Also, where does that put titan's heart guardian
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Third_Monti View Post
                        Also, where does that put titan's heart guardian
                        THG seems to be more Golem, even though it looks like a Rock Wraith. It was created by the Titans and brought to life with Lyrium, so it fits that general definition for it. Plus it has a specific purpose of guardianship, unlike the Rock Wraiths which are free to roam about as they please.

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                        • #13
                          What about red lyrium for statues?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Uraeus View Post
                            What about red lyrium for statues?
                            Very probably yes.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post
                              Very probably yes.
                              Question: Can Lyrium be considered as a new tag for heroes who are not Red Lyrium, but Regular Lyrium (with the exception of Templars) I mean heroes like Fenris (and his variants) who are imbued with powers from lyrium tattoos, and the Sha Brytol, who if i am not mistaken, ingest it, the Titan's Heart Guardian, the Rock Wraiths and hopefully the Profane if they ever come to the game.
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