Josephine on-hit ability wrong calculation

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  • Josephine on-hit ability wrong calculation

    Hi guys, we have already know, that something wrong with her on-hit activation. It is very powerful, much more than 2% all affect resist. We have noticed that on Right Armor Raid in the very beginning. So she was unstunable after someone hit her without stealth. Why I post it now.
    I made test with new 3star Shrike 3 Josephines and Advisors Cullen vs Dragon Morrigan, 3 Josephine and Chair Xenon.
    So, my Shrike has ONLY 40% curse resistance becase of 4 Templar Breastplates. But against my opponent She should have -25 from DM, -75 from 3 Josies, and -35 from Chair, in total -135% Debuff.
    40%-135%=-95%, absolutely cursable.
    So, after initiative roll, she strikes before opponent's DM, and hits back my team with ONLY 3 Josies. So it might be only + 30% Curse resists after that. -95% +30% =-65% still cursable. But, when DM of the opponent hits her, she is totally uncursable. OK, DM activates also Josephines of mine, but it's ONLY +30% Curse Resist. So -65%+30%= -35% still very cursable

    Speculation: Josephine gives 2% of resist from all bad status effects not when allies are attacked, but when allies are attacked multiplied on alive allies. So it is not 30% but 150%. Or something else here is going on, but still it is.

    Or maybe again something wrong with Shrike translation in Russian version of the Game
    Last edited by Heal and Harm |VK|; 12-31-2018, 03:37 AM.
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  • #2
    Isn't each 2% on top of the new total instead of just +2%?

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    • #3
      This problem has been around for a long time and it is easier to notice when you do not use duplicates since I can reduce up to a -135% resistance to curse what would make any team josephine be cursed like this with equipment

      I have not seen any interest in solving it due to the excessive advantage that duplicates give if not for this post would not even name it, a shame xq already trying to play without duplicates is difficult and with these bugs even more

      the worst is when they try to justify it saying that 5% is enough to not curse it before you needed 50% not to curse now with 10% enough for this and several times in a row when it should be unlikely that this happens ­čśž

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      • #4
        Originally posted by [Arcangel
        Celestial;n2288791]This problem has been around for a long time and it is easier to notice when you do not use duplicates since I can reduce up to a -135% resistance to curse what would make any team josephine be cursed like this with equipment

        I have not seen any interest in solving it due to the excessive advantage that duplicates give if not for this post would not even name it, a shame xq already trying to play without duplicates is difficult and with these bugs even more

        the worst is when they try to justify it saying that 5% is enough to not curse it before you needed 50% not to curse now with 10% enough for this and several times in a row when it should be unlikely that this happens ­čśž
        No one was bothered before this incident. Because we all used stealth attackers. And this ability was activated by attacks of AC, Wryme and DM of the foes. But now it is a problem. Because Shrike makes defending team totally resistant to all bad status, if she goes first before opponent's DM or whatever non-stealth.
        Last edited by Heal and Harm |VK|; 12-31-2018, 03:46 AM.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Heal and Harm |VK| View Post

          No one was bothered before this incident. Because we all used stealth attackers. And this ability was activated by attacks of AC, Wryme and DM of the foes. But now it is a problem. Because Shrike makes defending team totally resistant to all bad status, if she goes first before opponent's DM or whatever non-stealth.
          reread my comment please "everyone used duplicates" so they did not realize the error as you say but I do not use it so if I did not all use duplicates

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Heal and Harm |VK| View Post
            Speculation: Josephine gives 2% of resist from all bad status effects not when allies are attacked, but when allies are attacked multiplied on alive allies.
            Basically, yes. This is the known functionality of how these kinds of mechanics work - if all allies are attacked, and you have 5 allies alive, then a "2% gain when allies are attacked" means it is a total of 10% gain (2% x 5 allies attacked). Each attacked ally will trigger the gain.

            If you have 4 Josephines, then you're looking at 2% gain x 5 allies x 4 Josephines, for a total of 40% gain.

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            • #7
              already know that the mechanics works like that but that does not explain xq with only receiving a 1 hit in the second round you can not curse

              for example if cullen attacks once even if they were 4 josephine only receive 8% resistance to effects even so it would be unlikely that with only 8% can not be cursed I fought with teams without any item and despite being at 0% no they can curse for the second round

              the funny thing is that even in teams that have a josephine although the others are other heroes even so it is not possible to curse them for the second round

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post

                Basically, yes. This is the known functionality of how these kinds of mechanics work - if all allies are attacked, and you have 5 allies alive, then a "2% gain when allies are attacked" means it is a total of 10% gain (2% x 5 allies attacked). Each attacked ally will trigger the gain.

                If you have 4 Josephines, then you're looking at 2% gain x 5 allies x 4 Josephines, for a total of 40% gain.
                I meant other calculation when speculated you described as it should be in normal case, but with Josephine works something else. So, they didn't get 30% resist in my case but much more. I guess 30% x 5 = 150% Happy New Year!
                Last edited by Heal and Harm |VK|; 01-01-2019, 03:38 PM.
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                • #9
                  I made new test in clean environment. Result is absolutely insane. Check this video:
                  https://youtu.be/GQHzy4qPbA4
                  Josephine gives more than 4% All resistance, when Shrike hits her. Shrike has ONLY 10% resistance from Templar Brestplate. DM has -25% anti resists. So Shrike has -15% all resists total in the beginning of the fight. When Shrikes hits DM, and than hits back Josephine, she should have +4% All resistance, so should be -11% all resists for Shrike. BUT, When DM hits Shrike, she is totally uncursable and undrainable instead -11% or -7% if priority of DM curse is lower than Josephine's on-hit ability.

                  Proofed: Josephine gives total IMMUNITY to all effects when non-stealth hits allies.
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                  • #10
                    I agree with you, one full hit triggers a lot of all resists, i confirm this bug
                    Hero analyst- Ally code 415666376 - IGN OL Shadow Master

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                    • #11
                      is it possible that Josephine's 30% resist all to Inquisition is actually applying to allies, in addition to what you have shown?
                      Ally Code: 691-997-272

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bjorn Ragnarok View Post
                        is it possible that Josephine's 30% resist all to Inquisition is actually applying to allies, in addition to what you have shown?
                        Maybe. But if so, Shrike should have -11% or -7% +30%. 19% or 23% all resists. But in test she is undrainable. So drain resist is over 100%.
                        And also one moment. If DM strikes first, Shrike is cursed and drained all the time. Also other LCs (wryme, titan, caridin atc.) are always cursed/drained by DM If she goes first in the battle, even with multiple Josephines against multiple Josephines/Chairs on the first round. On second+ rounds, they are surely also have total immunity to all bad status, becase DM hit Josephine previously in the first round. So problem is in on-hit ability of Josephine 100%. We didn't notice that for so long, because we didn't use Saarath with Josephines, and didn't use DM in attacking slots, because of combining stealth Josephines with other stealth LCs
                        Last edited by Heal and Harm |VK|; 01-02-2019, 07:11 PM.
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                        • #13
                          Back in the office now We'll take a look.

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                          • #14
                            So apparently the way these kinds of auras work is that they're actually being applied to each ally - that is, the aura gets attached to each ally, so in a full squad, the effect is multiplied by the number of allies still alive, as theorized. Previously we've only used the "ally gain when allies are hit" applied to power and health gains, and testing showed that the effect resist gains work but we don't have a way to view specific values gained for the resistances.

                            Put another way: For each ally hit, each ally grants X% gain to all allies for each ally hit.

                            So when 5 allies are hit, each ally is granting 2% gain to all allies, for each ally hit.

                            5 allies triggered * 2% gain * 5 allies hit * # Josephines.

                            That means this is working the way the code is designed, but it seems to have been a misunderstanding by designers on how this aura was going to get attached to each ally to be triggered, causing a much greater gain than intended. The result is considerably more powerful than it should be.

                            Of note: This affects the damage resist as well, although DR is capped and isn't as straight-forward a calculation as the effect resists (as it has diminishing returns) so it seems currently to be acceptable. Power and Health gains work differently and do not appear to be affected by this.

                            I'm going to review the status effect gains on Josephine to see how we can bring this under better balance control. This will likely result in a change to something along the lines of "When hit, allies gain 10% effect resists" - meaning, when Josephine is hit, allies will gain 10% effect resists, for a total of 40% maximum gain in a squad of 4 dupe Josies in an AOE attack.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lyeshal View Post

                              Of note: This affects the damage resist as well, although DR is capped and isn't as straight-forward a calculation as the effect resists (as it has diminishing returns) so
                              I'm going to review the status effect gains on Josephine to see how we can bring this under better balance control. This will likely result in a change to something along the lines of "When hit, allies gain 10% effect resists" - meaning, when Josephine is hit, allies will gain 10% effect resists, for a total of 40% maximum gain in a squad of 4 dupe Josies in an AOE attack.
                              Please check https://youtu.be/GQHzy4qPbA4
                              Only 2 units vs 1 unit. Only ONE Josephine gives 100+% drain resist. Please look at Shrike closely after DM Attack

                              I guess, 10% all resists when Josephine is hit is very good solution
                              Last edited by Heal and Harm |VK|; 01-04-2019, 03:55 AM.
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