Max speed cap messes up attack order

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  • Max speed cap messes up attack order

    I don't know if it's a bug or working as intended, but if I give my team 2 speed runes, normal and fast units are both treated as "very fast", therefore getting equal chances to attack first. It seems wrong if my normal speed units attack before my fast ones do and it also ruins any plan that may have relied on the fast units attacking first. So is there a way to keep in mind the inherent speed abilities of the heroes, even if they all get boosted to "very fast" and thus keeping the attack order intact?
    Last edited by Atrushan; 05-17-2018, 11:28 AM.
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  • #2
    As I understand it, this is working as intended with two speed runes on a team with quicks and normals,it becomes RNG who goes first of the several heroes at the cap. Starting from normal or quick does not matter in this case as all are now seen the same speed. Hope that helps.
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    • #3
      Originally posted by Odesius View Post
      As I understand it, this is working as intended with two speed runes on a team with quicks and normals,it becomes RNG who goes first of the several heroes at the cap. Starting from normal or quick does not matter in this case as all are now seen the same speed. Hope that helps.
      In other words there's no benefit to going double speed on quick round right? Might as well go speed/power.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Odesius View Post
        Starting from normal or quick does not matter in this case as all are now seen the same speed. Hope that helps.
        Actually it does matter. For example a warden team with 2 Duncans and 2 other, normal speed warden heroes that do not gain power. Whether the Duncans go first or last makes a significant difference for the power gain and total damage output of the team. There are many constellations were you'd want your fast heroes to go *before* your normal speed ones.
        Sure, one could say "then just use only one speed rune". But the point still stands that a normal speed unit shouldn't be able to strike before a fast one does to begin with.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kidnova View Post
          In other words there's no benefit to going double speed on quick round right? Might as well go speed/power.
          Yup, you got it.
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          • #6
            Originally posted by Atrushan View Post

            Actually it does matter. For example a warden team with 2 Duncans and 2 other, normal speed warden heroes that do not gain power. Whether the Duncans go first or last makes a significant difference for the power gain and total damage output of the team. There are many constellations were you'd want your fast heroes to go *before* your normal speed ones.
            Sure, one could say "then just use only one speed rune". But the point still stands that a normal speed unit shouldn't be able to strike before a fast one does to begin with.
            Right, I agree with what you’re saying strategically, I’m simply offering that it doesn’t actually work that way in your dual speed example where all are seen at the same speed so it’ll be RNG who goes first when using quicks and normals under dual speed.
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            • #7
              I understand that it doesn't work that way if you use two speed runes. Shouldn't it, though? That's what this topic is about. Seemed like an issue to me. But if it's not a bug and working as intended indeed, might as well call it a "suggestion". I don't even know if it's technically possible to differ between the units in such a scenario, to be honest. Oh well, maybe I looked at it from the wrong viewpoint. We could always say that it's just magic and they are magically sped up to the same level (which I guess is just what happens here), therefore being equal. I can't quite wrap my head around it, but then again, maybe I was thinking too rational ^^

              Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
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              • #8
                previously this worked so if you used 2 speed runes I know because with fast heroes if you used 2 you attacked first the heroes who only used 1

                Nose because they changed it because in fact it surprised me when I used 2 runes of speed that my heroes did not attack first in spite of being fast since before I used health runes I did not know that they had changed it

                I hope you return it to the way it was before, since using 2 runes of speed also has its disadvantages because no power and health bonus is received. If the opponent survives, he could win with the power to accumulate.

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                • #9
                  It was explained this way to me once by a guildie.Hoda speed is 1-5(1 slowest 5fastest).Slow round heroes are at a 2,normal at a 3,fast at a 4.If you use 1 speed rune everybody goest up to the next gear(4sbecome 5s,3s become 4s etc).Since 5 is the ceiling you can’t go above it so as you already learned 2 speed runes would put quicks and normal on equal ground.Yes it screwed me up the first month pg was released and I was using x2 vt team because I thought I’d get initiative over 1 speed rune vt team.(Yes vt was once meta,when fen ruled the earth).
                  Anyway I realize you understand this now just thought I’d break down how it works though it was completely unnecessary lol.Leave me alone,I haven’t posted in a whole 24 hours lol
                  Last edited by Dildoith; 05-17-2018, 08:19 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by [Arcangel
                    Celestial;n2272512]previously this worked so if you used 2 speed runes I know because with fast heroes if you used 2 you attacked first the heroes who only used 1

                    Nose because they changed it because in fact it surprised me when I used 2 runes of speed that my heroes did not attack first in spite of being fast since before I used health runes I did not know that they had changed it

                    I hope you return it to the way it was before, since using 2 runes of speed also has its disadvantages because no power and health bonus is received. If the opponent survives, he could win with the power to accumulate.
                    If they changed this mechanic it was before 2016,been like this since pgs been here

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                    • #11
                      "Quick+1" as it's sometimes called has always been the fastest speed. One rune on top of a quick is always the same as two on a normal, that's just the way it is. The fact is that using two runes is a bit strategically bankrupt anyway, since you'll almost always benefit more from having a speed and a power rune than you would two speed runes.

                      It used to be that the mythic-level speed rume actually added +2 initiative for 5 minutes, but that was changed for the very reason that it was a lot less useful than just +1 initiative for a considerably longer time.
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dildoith View Post

                        If they changed this mechanic it was before 2016,been like this since pgs been here
                        exactly. We used to have a quick +2 speed, but after a short amount of testing it was deemed better to limit that to speed +1. I can't remember if that was due to CG, community feedback, or both.

                        If I'm not mistaken, there is no floor to how slow a unit can go, when taking heavy slow effects from the opposition.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bjorn Ragnarok View Post

                          exactly. We used to have a quick +2 speed, but after a short amount of testing it was deemed better to limit that to speed +1. I can't remember if that was due to CG, community feedback, or both.

                          If I'm not mistaken, there is no floor to how slow a unit can go, when taking heavy slow effects from the opposition.
                          Yes I believe your right about no floor for slow

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                          • #14
                            I remember that Quick +2 was a thing for a while. Bringing something like that back would probably be the easiest "fix" to avoid heroes with different speed being treated and having the same after the boost. And it wouldn't throw up the attack order.
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                            • #15
                              Speed was nerfed a couple of years ago. The logic being that quick units dominated the game when you could go speed +2.
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